To Think that Disability Shouldn't be a Trump Card

[MissAustenMadeAQuilt]

Don't know how to link but the case is easy to find.

Martin Madden worked for the Met Police as a civilian worker.

He made many crude, lewd and sexual remarks to women co-workers and eventually he was sacked for this.

He has gone to a tribunal. As he was diagnosed with ADHD in 2022, the judge found that he was disabled and was not aware that his actions were inappropriate.

He will now be compensated.

This, and the recent Tourettes case where a racial slur was excused because of disability, makes me wonder if ADHD and Tourettes will now be a "Get Out of Jail Free" card and it is PoC and Women who will suffer the consequences.

I do have a skin in the game. I am woman and have a mixed race child.

AIBU?

@MissAustenMadeAQuilt would you be willing to tell us if you believe that a racist term verbalised as a result of a tick from somebody who DOES indisputably have Tourettes, should be handled by the law/a school/an employer, in exactly the same way as the same words being shouted by a group of people who DO NOT have Tourettes?

So does mine, along with other complex needs.

I am sad to see yet another thread where two vulnerable communities are pitted against each other.

What happened at the Baftas was awful. The Bafta organisers and BBC failed in their duty of care of both John and all those present at the awards and those who then were exposed to the language on tv. John himself has asked and been assured it would be edited.

I think most people understand the concept that a racial slurs can be said without meaning by someone with tourettes, but it is a word with a long and painful history and therfore hugely offensive and causes harm.

As for adhd, I have adhd myself, I am not sexist but I do have issues with impulse control and context and appropriateness, just talking too much etc.

In this case the ruling makes it clear there were procedural errors. It does NOT excuse the behaviours and makes it clear the man in question had started medication and was receiving psychological support and making progress with that. The issues seem to be that his employers didnt take that into account and he hadnt been able to engage in the procedural process himself.

But as ever the headline doesnt make that clear. Same old, do what sells, dont let the truth of a situation get in the way of a good chance to bash disabled. Its always same with media, disabled, immigrants, black etc all perfectly legitimate targets to tarnish and throw under a bus. Distract from the bigger picture

I think that disability is relevant if, and only if, it's actually the cause of the action.. So the two cases that you mention are different, In the first case, the disabilty is not relevant IMO. ADHD may make you somewhat less good at controlling your impulses, but if your impulses involve wishing to be a sex pest, then you shouldn't be working arround women. Sooner or later, you will show your true colours and then there'll be an excuse: 'But I have ADHD'; ;'But I was drunk'; 'But she was wearing a short skirt'; etc,

Tourettes is different; it causes unwanted and uncontrollable physical and/or verbal tics. So in this case it's relevant and a genuine reason. The BBC should have cut it from the broadcast,however.

Reading responses to John Davidson at the BAFTAs you’d think there was a hierarchy of oppression with disabled people at the bottom.

ADHD does not produce involuntary behaviour. I think of all the people I know who have ADHD would be appaulled at the idea that their condition is used as an excuse for being a creep.

Corporlailia which is what John Davidson has does produce involuntary behaviour. It is also present in Dementia and Parkinsons. This can be managed but not overcome with medication.

For black women like me reading the brushing aside of what happened, including attacks on the two black men at the BAFTAs by people on social media makes it more than clear that the hierarchy of oppression has black people right at the very bottom.

Tourette’s is a disability it cannot attack.

The person attacked the most, including by very wealthy and famous influential people, is the working class disabled man whose only crime it seems was to be disabled and white. The shocking response - including on MN where people called for disabled people to be muzzled or kept at home - unlike John Davidson’s tics, was purposeful, nasty and illogical.

People on social media where attacking the two black men and blaming him for Davidson's tics. The slurs on these two black Americans by privileged white British people have been disgusting to read. But you absolutely refuse to acknowledge this. To you, only the white British male suffered.

There is also 2 documentaries about John Davidson on you tube. First was when he was 18 and the other when he was in his early 30s.

I haven't seen the actual actors being attacked on social media. i have seen Jamie foxx wading in saying JD had intent do you think he had intent ?

I just wanted to edit to say i believe these men were maybe attacked just I hadn't seen it.

If this does happen (and I’m doubtful it will become at all commonplace) it is entirely the fault of BAFTA and the BBC for their epic failures. It is not the fault of John Davidson or any other person with Tourette’s, who should never be held responsible for vocal tics.

Disabled people have plenty of shite to deal with, let’s not pile on them for this.

I personally saw no instances of anyone blaming DL and MBJ for JD’s tics, I only saw a few people saying it would be good for them to speak out in support of JD - of which these people got attacked

JD had calls to be attacked, killed, kept at home and even had a very famous “comedian” call for his harm at the NAACP awards. To say LD and MBJ experience anything like that is laughable.

Black people are not the only oppressed group or even the most oppressed group. Behaving like they are for fear of being called an insult is not how I roll.

There’s a few, a good on called Tourette’s De France where him and other Tourette’s sufferers went on holiday.

And yet all this plus a BAFTA winning film and people still equate him with someone who means what they say.

I was in the thick of the SM debate about this and I never once saw anything like this.

Exactly. The audience were warned, and the BBC promised no tics would be aired. Yet people still want his head. yet somehow the same people calling for h to be attacked let other white men who say the word on purpose off the hook because <checks notes>…actually I don’t know why, it’s not clear. Nobody has explains it.

And when JD apologised (not that he owed anyone an apology), all I saw were calls (from v famous people included such as Queen Latifah) saying it wasn’t good enough. I think they wanted blood by the sounds of it.

Yes i saw that when i was googiling something. I might try and see if i can find it.

I honestly did not see any of this. I'm not trying to claim it didn't happen, and I'm sorry to see that it clearly did, a lot. I imagine the bloody social media algorithms showed each of us what it considered would be most rage-bait.

What I was shown was a lot of expression of hurt from black people, and a lot of attacks (from mainly white people from what I could gather) on the disabled white man. I was annoyed and upset with what I read because it looked to me like the film and all of his awareness raising work was for sweet fuck all, because most of the general public commentary I saw was people who did not utter one word of understanding that he was not in control of the words that came out of his mouth as ticks.

The whole thing seemed very much to be whipped up and flames fanned by the media circus.

People on social media, including celebrities who are far more privileged, have also been attacking Davidson for deliberately using the slur - which he didn’t.

Both are wrong.

With respect you really need to do some reading around Tourette’s. My 26 year old DS was diagnosed with it aged 7. Fortunately he doesn’t have coprolalia (swearing) but he has many other involuntary tics. Head nodding, head shaking, sucking his stomach in, sniffing, coughing and a few more. Spitting was the one that caused him the most grief. He can, for a time suppress his tics but it leaves him mentally and physically exhausted. Vicious circle because his tics get worse when he’s tired. Stress is another trigger for a tic attack. He can’t stop having Tourette’s, he can’t stop tics. It’s exhausting and humiliating for him. Don’t you think he’d stop these things if he could?

A trump card?
I have a friend who has a DD with Tourette's, and she tics slurs too. She is a petite 20/21 year old, and has had to run home in fear because she was scared to be beaten up. Women seem to be ok attacking other women at times, and in her case, when a disability is involved.

She covers herself in badges and lanyards about her Tourette's

There was a black lady with Tourette's that was basically hounded off of social media due to the BAFTA stuff (I can't recall her name, sorry). Told she was betraying her race.

It looks exhausting, do some of the tics hurt him,you don't have to answer if you think i am being too nosy, I was watching Lewis Capaldi on Graham and lewis tics looked uncomfortable.

I’m so sorry your lovely child was upset by obvious racist behaviour, it’s despicable.
It actually pisses me off when people try and excuse their children’s shocking behaviour by saying they have a disability. Coprolalia is quite a rare thing in Tourette’s. It’s the most shown on tv though because it makes good telly!
My oldest DS (26) has Tourette’s (fortunately not with the language) He’s been humiliated and bullied for it. It’s debilitating sometimes.
As for the BAFTA’s. I blame the producers, they put a mike in front of a man with Tourette’s and despite the 2 hour time delay didn’t edit out what he said. They did edit out other things said though!
I feel for everyone else involved. It should’ve been handled better.

Haven't read through the thread but yabvvu to bring tourette's into what youre saying, and really ignorant to include the two cases youve outlined together.

Goady, some may say.

They don’t cause him much physical
pain tbh just leave him wiped out if he tries to hold them in. He’s had it 19 years now and pretty much takes it in his stride. He’s experienced some bullying and questions growing up. He’s at a point now where he just tells people he’s got Tourette’s which he wouldn’t have done a few years ago. 🙂

Well that is good that he can just say i have tourettes and move on with his day,