To Think that Disability Shouldn't be a Trump Card

[MissAustenMadeAQuilt]

Don't know how to link but the case is easy to find.

Martin Madden worked for the Met Police as a civilian worker.

He made many crude, lewd and sexual remarks to women co-workers and eventually he was sacked for this.

He has gone to a tribunal. As he was diagnosed with ADHD in 2022, the judge found that he was disabled and was not aware that his actions were inappropriate.

He will now be compensated.

This, and the recent Tourettes case where a racial slur was excused because of disability, makes me wonder if ADHD and Tourettes will now be a "Get Out of Jail Free" card and it is PoC and Women who will suffer the consequences.

I do have a skin in the game. I am woman and have a mixed race child.

AIBU?

Yes Joey Deacon im of an age where I remember Joey being a derogatory term
And the awful actions that went with it.

Oh i said a derogatary term to make my point, it was about Joey Deacon who i also remember and what i used to be called at school, i didn't think it would be picked up, sorry.

Mumsnet do it automatically, I did similar on another thread to make a point.

I mean fair it is a horrible word was just suprised it was automatically picked up.

However, what I can also see is that he won't be the first to use it as an excuse-it didn't wash with school this time-and I can also see - even though he won't get a diagnosis-his mother announcing that he has Suspected Tourettes and that the CAMS list is so long she can't get an official diagnosis.
As to the man who offered up a defence of ADHD for his lewd remarks to women-well that defence was accepted and I can see other men-whether they have it or not- using it as an defence for saying the stuff he did.

People who actually do have ADHD and Tourette's aren't to blame for people pretending to have these conditions as an excuse for being racist or sexist. You're right that pretending to a condition to get out of trouble is unacceptable, but that really has nothing to do with those who actually have these conditions.

Also - you can't get diagnosed with either ADHD or Tourette's just by shouting horrible abuse every so often and claiming you can't help it. They both have exhaustive diagnostic processes.

I don't think having a disability is a trump card when you have done something that harms others.
However it may mean the way it is handled is different to how someone without the disability is treated.

With tourettes the individual can not control the tics. They will often live not only with the worry of how the tics impact them and their lives daily but how they might impact people around them.

This can mean people are left with a choice of isolating themselves and living a lesser life or trying to join in hoping the world around them can try providing accommodation and understanding to allow this.

From what I have read the BAFTAs incident neither the BAFTAs organisers or the BBC did enough to accommodate or support the people involved this led to many people getting hurt.

For the ADHD case I'm no expert but having looked at the summary whilst ADHD played apart it wasn't the main/ only reason the claimant had success at tribunal. Their neuro type did not cause errors made by their employer. It wasn't the singular trump card.

I live with a child with neuro diversity it hasn't been a trump card yet more a tax. And before they were diagnosed having a "suspected" condition also didn't help anything if it wasn't official then it didn't count so I very much doubt suspect tourettes will trump anything.
Also just because my child is neuro diverse doesn't mean they aren't taught what is and isn't acceptable and ways in which they can manage or ask others for support if needed.

Non of these things takeaway from the fact that what happened to your child was awful and unacceptable and it should have consequences for those involved. The consequences might look different if children in the group have different needs but their should be consequences.

But still, none of this is the fault of anyone with a genuine disability.

And you've had enough ableist posts deleted from another thread to absolutely know this.

So you have met my daughter……

(she has adhd)

John has been suicidal due to his Tourettes. He's also been beaten up because of his tics. I don't think anyone would choose to have this condition. He also apologised for the slur he made

OP it’s a shame you didn’t just post about the ADHD police officer case in isolation and framed the thread title as such because I think you would have got a lot more supportive comments and a much more productive debate.

The Tourette’s case is a different situation for obvious reasons regarding the nature of the disability and it was the BBC that failed in their duty of care there to both parties and also to the audience. Lack of briefing to guests, thinking about where to position microphones, not editing it out (despite heavy editing of other parts) and failure to offer reconciliations was the big screw ups by the BBC.

The police officer case absolutely infuriates me. It’s shocking that sexual harassment and lewd conduct towards women can be excused by ADHD. What will be excused next? Violence towards women because of ADHD? A police officer will come into contact with vulnerable female victims and members of the public every day and should be competent and robust socially to be in such a role where you have to deal with the public sensitively and professionally. As a teacher, so much appalling behaviour (especially from boys) with ADHD is excused or justified because governors and SLT are terrified of parental wrath and legal action. So many female (and male) teachers and students have to put up with violent behaviour, misogyny, continuous disrespect, vandalism, assault, endless disruption all because of capitulating to every diagnosis. It’s absolving so many students from inexcusable conduct,

Tourette’s - which is not the same as ADHD - IS an excuse for anything said.

But carry on demonising disabled people if it makes you feel good

Not all disabilities are the same

And blame the racists not the people with Tourette’s for racist abuse. I assume you know they weren’t being serious?

And OP still hasn’t said what should be done about these awful Tourette’s sufferers - what is it OP? Prison? A good kicking? What do you think should be done about them?

I get that it’s distressing to have your kids subjected to nasty comments but what is your solution?

Just what we all need. Another thread bashing people with disabilities 🙄

Someone on the BAFTA thread said they should be muzzled if they want to go out. Maybe that’s what OP thinks should happens

OP, I Swear is on Netflix today. How about you give it a watch before blaming a working class disabled man for the actions of racists

Since when did having ADHD mean you could be a lewd, sexist prick and get away with it?

I think OP just wanted another kicking to that poor man who has been bullied by people the world over for being disabled, whilst they moan about choosing to be offended by a word.

Yes god forbid people are offended by racial slurs.

I think the Tourette’s example highlights the ignorance many people have about these things and Tourette’s in particular. Then instead of saying “oh I don’t know much about that let’s find out” they run to judge and pass comments which just highlights the ignorance.

I don’t know much about Tourette’s and when I first heard to comments I was shocked. But then I took the time to listen to those who are living with Tourette’s and realised why my initial gut reaction was wrong.

In fairness that’s not what happened. The links posted here that delve into the judgment show far more nuance than in OP.

But is IS a word people pick and choose to be offended over depending on the context

Do you not find it funny how nobody is offended when Leonardo DiCaprio said it in Django, 43 times out of- his costar Jamie Foxx believed that a disabled man with Tourette’s must have meant it.
So why is it ok for a millionaire Hollywood star to say it, but a disabled man who has UNCONTROLLED tics is “offensive”?

Gay people weren’t up in arms about the fact he called a bisexual man a pedophile. Why do you think that is?

Well put

Why? In a film it is people making a decision that that term is fine to use.

When someone has Tourette’s it’s that persons disability meaning they have no control over what comes out of their mouth.

why is the controlled, planned for one fine but not the uncontrolled?