To Think that Disability Shouldn't be a Trump Card

[MissAustenMadeAQuilt]

Don't know how to link but the case is easy to find.

Martin Madden worked for the Met Police as a civilian worker.

He made many crude, lewd and sexual remarks to women co-workers and eventually he was sacked for this.

He has gone to a tribunal. As he was diagnosed with ADHD in 2022, the judge found that he was disabled and was not aware that his actions were inappropriate.

He will now be compensated.

This, and the recent Tourettes case where a racial slur was excused because of disability, makes me wonder if ADHD and Tourettes will now be a "Get Out of Jail Free" card and it is PoC and Women who will suffer the consequences.

I do have a skin in the game. I am woman and have a mixed race child.

AIBU?

I understand DiCaprio’s role.

Im asking why, if we are to believe that a disabled white man with no control of his words is offensive, why DiCaprio (not his character: the man himself) is ok because he’s playing a role?

What about those who are playing racists? Edward Norton for example? Was he OK to say it? Why? What’s the difference? Explain it to me.

The two cases are totally different because one is clear cut thing and on is not.
Tourette's actually causes the suffers brain to send signals telling their body to produce certain noises or sounds.

You breath 24/7 whether you think about it or not. Your brain sends those signals with no effort from you. Sometimes, if you happen to want to think about it like to dive or something, you can control it, but if you aren't thinking about it, unless you are desperately ill or being physically crushed or something, you WILL breath! It's the same with Tourette's tics, they happen. The brain sends an unconscious neurological signal to tell your body to tick. Occasionally, if the person is ONLY thinking about not ticking, they might be able to suppress one for a moment, but that would mean sitting still, not listening, interacting, reading, or anything else. Punishing someone with Tourette's for having a tic would be like punishing an epileptic for having a seizure.

ADHD is different because, while it is to do with impulse control, it doesn't always involve unconscious signals being sent all the time at random. There are lots of different factors which affect an individual's ability to control or not control different impulses in ADHD and how much control an individual has will depend on their brain function and on how they have been treated and cared for.

Yeah, terrible, innit? Discriminate against somebody and fail to follow procedure in respect of somebody with a Protected Characteristic and they might have the sheer audacity to exercise their legal rights to ensure that they are no longer discriminated against in the workplace and the employer is made very aware that they have to follow the Law and correct procedures.

Next thing you know, they'll be expecting to be treated as well as somebody normal. Slippery slope, I tell you.

Ok I am not having this discussion with somebody too thick to distinguish between a film and real life.

(If you cannot fathom why somebody playing a racist slaveowner would be scripted racist language and people paying to see it would expect it then nobody will be able to explain it to you. You will continue to be perplexed why people react differently to portrayals in film than real life.)

Ad infinitum.

( I am not going to engage in any confusion of theatrical depictions of offence and real life. A million things are depicted in films which in real life people are not ok with. It’s simply a theatrical depiction. I am not ok with racism, sexism, homophobia, anti-semitism in real life but will watch a film with all of that depicted (unless gratuitous).

(also I cannot speak for OP but people can still feel injured by something while holding no ill will towards the person causing it - which is most people’s stance on the BAFTA / BBC cock-up.)

There was a blind politician who groped a masseur and got away with it on the basis he used his blindness as an excuse.

There was also a blind paedophile who had some sight but claimed it was his lack of sight which meant he didn’t realise that the images he was looking at were three year olds instead of adults. He didn’t get away with it mercifully but there was outcry when his guide dog was removed and talk of how his only friend was taken away.

And yes, I have a visual impairment and feel perfectly justified in judging.

The reality is that having a disability doesn’t make someone a nice person. And there will be people who will attempt to use that disability as a mitigation. The hope is that they won’t get away with it, but it seems that in some instances it does happen that they do.

You only have to look at threads on here from people who are having problems with a relative, an abusive partner, husband, member of a friendship group, and the number of people who try to justify it by saying “are they ND/on the spectrum?”

Problem is nobody is going to read the full judgment. Just the sensationalist news reporting and unfortunately it may make things harder for people with ADHD in the workforce. Sadly.

I’m a mixed race woman with a child who has Tourette’s so i have skin in the game, too.

I’m sorry to hear about the kid being racist to your child. Sadly it’s likely they will hear more of it in the future - I wish the world wasn’t like this.

I think you should take the opportunity to build your child’s resilience. People can and will be offensive but it will be up to him/her whether they decide to feel offended and/or see themselves as a victim.

So - be very careful what you teach them with your attitude. I say this as someone who has experienced racism. Build your kids up so they rise above it and see themselves racists for the idiots or ignorant kids that they are.

Obviously the Tourette’s comment was completely out of order and tbh, you don’t seem to know or care much about neurodiversity. I’m surprised you understand concern about racism but are clearly so ableist yourself and then see it as some kind of competition? ADHD is a medical condition. If you and your kids don’t have it then yes - they certainly do have privileges that people with ADHD don’t, and lucky them.

But my main message is - don’t teach your kids to have a victim mentality.

I think all racial slurs would be removed. I cannot imagine you could post the P, K or F words either.

“Cunt” in the UK is far less of a gendered insult. Hence why it won’t be removed - it would be put in the same bracket as “fuck” I would imagine.

What a breath of fresh air! You sound like a great mother. I think resilience is sadly lacking today.

If you cannot fathom why somebody playing a racist slaveowner would be scripted racist language and people paying to see it would expect it then nobody will be able to explain it to you. You will continue to be perplexed why people react differently to portrayals in film than real life.

What I’m trying to fathom is why it’s perfectly acceptable for the n word to be said by a white man, on purpose and for money, when it’s scripted, but not by a disabled man with no control over his words.

Whats so great about a scripted film that this word, which is apparently unacceptable and entirely offensive in another context involving a disabled man, suddenly becomes OK? Is it the “playing a slave owner” part? Again - why is that ok? And is it JUST this one part that’s ok?

I am not going to engage in any confusion of theatrical depictions of offence and real life. A million things are depicted in films which in real life people are not ok with

Once again, I’m talking about the actors, not the characters. Leonardo DiCaprio, Nathan Lane, Edward Norton (off the top of my head). Three white men who really did say the n word on purpose. And apparently that’s ok - but why? When a disabled man with no control saying it on purpose is offensive?

If it’s the whole “Oh they’re playing a part” shtick - you could say exactly the same for Davidson. He is not his tics, it’s a part his disability plays. Except his part is involuntary and he isn’t getting paid for it, he’s getting abuse.
Why shouldn’t DiCaprio, Lane and Norton apologise like Davidson was hounded to including by you?

See how the whole “It’s offensive!” Argument falls down?

You can be offended by something while simultaneously not having a victim mentality. If somebody called me a “fat bitch” out of nowhere I would find it offensive but would not see how that means having a victim mentality. Thinking it’s offensive would not stop me going about my daily life.

YABU for conflating all disabilities under one umbrella.

I think the answer you're looking for is context does indeed count, although I'm sure the pp won't be forthcoming.

ADHD was once associated with a learning disorder, the inability to control one’s reactions and lack of frontal lobe control so I can why the judge assumed it impacted him this way.
Now all sorts of ranges of intelligent people are being diagnosed with ADHD.
Tourette is another kettle of fish. A disability that gives no control, it would be very tough, hardly a trump card.

[C+P previous response here]

Whether bbc deleted it or not… it still happened. Are you saying if you don’t see/hear racism then it doesn’t matter?

So still refusing to answer a perfectly reasonable question?

Colour me shocked.

You won’t answer because you know it will expose your total hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance.

Tourette’s isn’t racism.

But the kids at your child’s school haven’t got Tourette’s and it’s only diagnosed by a clinical psychiatrist and it’s extremely rare. You can’t blame the Tourette’s community for the actions of kids at a school.

it is EXTREMELY obvious when a person is ticking as opposed to someone being offensive.

My son has ADHD. And Tourette’s - apparently we were told it is very common to have both. Not that im excusing it mind.

I wish some people would remember that ableism is just as bad as racism.

So genuine Tourette’s diagnosed peeps need to suffer because you think that people without will use it as a get out of jail free card ? Are you for real? You are mixing different issues here
Of course it’s unacceptable your children were targeted but you cannot blame genuine Tourette’s sufferers for this ! This is a separate issue and if you are not happy with the response from the school then you need to take it up with them.
Because bad people will use any excuse for their behaviour you have decided to lay blame incorrectly ! They won’t just be given a diagnosis without it being valid
I hate posts like this - it is hard enough for anyone living with a disability I would imagine and now you are stating that they have a get out of jail free card How utterly ridiculous !

It seems the case in the OP was of an individual whose disability (impulsiveness and inability to read social cues) can cause offensive behaviour, but who is capable of modifying the behaviour when given explicit instructions and help, which is in fact what happened. Where the employer fell down was in sacking him after he'd modified his behaviour, and also in apparently ignoring the disability aspect altogether.

These two incidents aren't comparable. The man with Tourettes has a neurological condition. He physiologically cannot help saying offensive things. I understand you find that upsetting emotionally but there is genuinely no malice behind his words. It's no difference to Parkinsons or MS or epilepsy - it is a disability. And that is not a "trump card."

Change the word ‘disability’ for ‘race’ and realise how ableist even the title of this thread is.