I think my DD is wasting her life away and Ex is enabling it

[Bigorangeballoons]

This could be a little complex so I’ll give some background first.
I have 4 DC, 2 with my ex husband. My 2 eldest with my ex are 22 and 19. We divorced when they were 6 and 9. My Ex is French and we lived in London, both of our children attended a French language school. For 2 years we both lived local to the school but the area was very expensive. DS decided at 11 he wanted to go to a “normal school”. Stupidly my ex and I agreed DD would live with him as the primary parent and I would move further out for DS to go to secondary school. I then had 2 more children. DD continued living with her dad and going to French school. Upon reflection I should never have left DD with her dad, at first I had her every weekend then by the time she was 11/12 every other weekend and she spent most of it at her hobbies. Ex spoiled her rotten, she was his little princess. He never really spoiled DS the same and they have a very strained relationship as a result while DS and I are very close. Ex bought DD the newest iPhone at 11, upgraded it often, she had a MacBook at 12, let her spend stupid amounts of money on clothes, took her to loads of gigs, took her on trips alone (snowboarding mostly as DS never enjoyed snow sports), paid for all her hobbies. Apparently she was golden for her dad, never misbehaved etc. But with me she was a nightmare, she’d get so stroppy, ignored curfews, constantly shouted at my now husband that he isn’t her dad and he shouldn’t even talk to her as a result. Punishment rarely worked as by Sunday night she was back at her dads and being spoiled again.
When she was 16, my ex told me he was moving back to France and wanted to take DD with him. I didn’t want this to happen but eventually I gave in and let her move with him, mainly as I felt if I said no she would be horrific to live with and view me as the reason and it would break our already tense relationship entirely.

She is a clever girl, did really well in school, settled down with her behaviour a lot after moving when she would come back to visit. She started university in France in the autumn but dropped out. Her dad now pays for a flat which she shares with her 22 year old boyfriend. She doesn’t work, doesn’t study, she is in a band, who write their own music and do play some very small gigs but it’s not making money. She messages me and I have tried to visit her alone without my husband or other children but the last 2 times I’ve done this once in the summer I got all the way there and only met up with her for a meal one night, she was busy or ‘ill’ the other 2 days. Then just before Christmas she again met up with me to trade presents but only for dinner one night, apparently again too busy to see me on the other days.

My older son went to see her and their dad over the weekend and today when he got home he told me her life is “a mess”. Apparently she is smoking loads, drinking loads, spends her days just messing about and has no plans to go back to uni. Her dad is paying her rent, he gives her an allowance to buy whatever she wants etc. Apparently her dad fully supports her and her “boyfriend and band mates” and they are all just following the creative process!

I have no idea what to do, her dad won’t talk to me and I have a feeling anything I said to DD would be ignored. I feel like I messed up by ever letting her live with her dad full time as he is clearly an incompetent parent.

AIBU to feel I have failed her? What do I do? Is there even anything I can do?

but that was YOUR choice!!

this thread is mad!

you chose to have 4 children, and then as a result of that, only saw your eldest dd twice a month.

What was wrong with op’s response? She’s telling it how it was.

The op has been honest and is getting unfairly judged on here.

Anyway op is perfectly able to defend herself but all I will say is that multi-lingual, multi-country, multi-curricula families and households are complex! Especially when the main relationship ends in divorce.

The educational decisions you have to make are far from easy. A lot depends on an individual child’s facility for languages. You have to make the decisions you feel are best for each individual child at the time. And they are not always easy or straightforward.

Yes DD would very much say her first language is French, actually her English has a notable accent. This is because she was fully educated in French, a lot of her extra curricular activities were in French (music and tennis).
DS on the other hand even at primary age did more team sports which were in English, he wasn’t fussed on staying in the French school as he just wanted better sports. I couldn’t live in south ken forever, it’s extortionate! So it made sense when he wanted to move to go somewhere with schools with good sports. DD was offered to move too but she didn’t want to and she mostly spoke French by 8 so it wouldn’t have been in her best interest to throw her into the English curriculum against her will.

Why am I imagining op as moira rose the older son as David and the partying 19 year Dd as Alexis?! Similar relationship vibes.

And whose choice was that? 🙄

Honestly I don’t think it would have made much difference if I hadn’t had more children.

I still couldn’t afford to live in South Ken, DS would have still wanted a sporty school, I’d have still had to move and DD would still have had lots of after school activities making seeing her after work difficult anyway.

Oh come on, if you didn't have two younger children to care for, you'd have had your evenings to spend time with DD even if it was just picking her up from her hobbies or something.

She was 12 by the time I had another child, prior to that I still had to get home for DS, someone had to make his dinner and actually collect him from hobbies as it was a town not London so not as easy for him to get himself to and from sports.
From about 11 DD and most of her friends were using the tube/buses to get to hobbies, she’d have been mortified if either her dad or I picked her up!
I noticed a massive difference in maturity between DS and DD around 11-15, I think living in zone 1 creates more opportunities for independence than in a town. London kids really are a slightly different breed navigating the tube and buses and going shopping on regents street at 11/12!

I think it’s a bit unfair to characterise op’s relationship with her dd as favouring the brother. The op did what she could to facilitate both of her dc’s educational needs.

(Wierd how men who abandon all of their children don’t receive nearly as much flak on Mumsnet as op has.)

I doubt Op would have bothered to post here if she didn’t care about her relationship with her DD.

Her dd may well feel hurt and disappointed in her mother now, and she may have some justification, but when we are young, we can’t always understand the wider picture and reality of logistics, money, divorce, and relationships with uncooperative exes.

That’s why it is important that op continues to be try to be there for her dd. Not demanding anything, just being supportive. And given time, I hope they can discuss openly the decisions made and they can repair their relationship.

I'm genuinely surprised at the comments here saying it's none of op's business and that her son should keep his nose out also. From the OP, her daughter wasn't abandoned. Both parents came to an agreement about moving in order to support both children - the son wanting to go to a "normal" secondary, and the daughter wanting to stay. None of what the OP has said suggested she in any way favoured her son and to be honest, her life does sound like a mess. I think it's great in a way that her dad can support her living arrangements if she is focusing on music and wants to be in a band but if it's smoking and drinking and messing around all day, that's just a complete waste of time.

OP, I don't think you're being unreasonable wanting to help your daughter. Parenthood and that sense of responsibility don't stop just because you're child is an adult, despite what Mumsnet likes to churn out on these type of posts 🙄 you just have to be there to support her though if she needs help and be ready to guide her should she ask for/need guidance.

read again with less belligerence please. It was a positive post to op?

Can I just say I’m not trying to have a go at the op.

im saying that in order to get a relationship with her dd going forward, the starting point is for the op to apologise to her dd for her lack of input in her former years. Yes, there was reasons for them all, explain them all but perhaps with a ‘I maybe coukd have done that better’ tone.

I'm sure they are, but there's no getting away from the fact that having additional children decreases the amount of time, money and energy you have available to spend on your existing ones.

You can't neglect the relationship with your daughter for years and then complain when you don't like the outcome of that.

I apologise fully if read it the wrong way!

It’s hard to tell on here sometimes.

No probs! I do get what you mean!

Thank you 💐

You’re lecturing about languages to someone who’s half Italian whose husband is not English but always worked here? Ok.

Bottom line is that there are no language issues so pressing that necessitates the splitting up of 2 siblings to 2 different parents.

The SK Lycee is not the only French school in London.

“Mangelwurzelfortea · Today 10:39
FrippEnos · Yesterday 23:33
Just as a counter point.
You left her with her Dad, moved, got remarried, had 2 more children and generally got on with your life.
From the sound of it she had a good childhood with her dad that you somewhat begrude.
And now want a controlling part of her life.
Where as the best thing that you could do is watch and support her.
Also your elder child son needs to keep his nose out of it, and stop telling tales and you should stop encouraging him in doing so.”

“Yeah, agree with this.
You didn't have much of a hand in raising her so can't complain now that she's grown into the adult you don't want her to be. And yes maybe you made the choices that you really felt were right at the time but hell would freeze over before I'd let one of my kids live with my ex. You haven't really been a 'mum' to her so she probably doesn't value your opinions and you need to stay out of it and let her make her own decisions now.”

This with bells on. You prioritised your other DCs more or less to the exclusion of your daughter. That shows an incredible lack of love and care. I find your lack of insight into what you did and your lack of insight into her teenage unhappiness, acting out and anger quite chilling. You just keep making excuses for why your level of detachment was okay but her behaviour was telling you how wounded she was. If there is one person’s love a child should always be able to count on, it’s their mother’s love. As parents, we all fuck up - i certainly have. But this is big. You weren’t really a mother to her during crucial formative years. You were off with another man making another family whom you prioritised. Then you wonder why she wasn’t that interested in you when you visited her in France. You don’t get to lay down judgement on her now. Have you admitted to her how wrong you got this? You need to rebuild your relationship with her from scratch.

But why should DD have had to move schools for DS’s wants? And why should DS have not had access to the education he wanted for DD.

We were able to meet both Childs educational needs. When we got divorced there was always going to be one resident parent and one who wasn’t, the children just had different needs.

You did what was best for her (and you) at the time and I can understand why you’re so worried for her now - she is an adult but her father is at fault for spoiling and enabling her! I don’t think there’s anything you can do except be there for her if she reaches out to you for help

Also as far as I’m aware the only other options that go all the way up to 18 are Wembley and Bloomsbury. Wembley would have been inconvenient from both where I live and where ex lived and Bloomsbury would have still been easier from her dads.

Sorry this was for @Aluna

OP has not posted because she is worried about her relationship with her DD and because she wants to rebuild it. She has posted to complain about her DD, saying she is wasting her life at only 19 years old, and criticise her exh and his parenting (which sounds pretty good actually). That is a bit rich when she chose to move away from her child when she was only 8 years old. Regardless of if they are a pretty much absent dad or mum you can't rock up at 19 when the relationship is already damaged and try to rule the roost. She barely knows her DD and her DD doesn't want to spend time with her. There is nothing at all she can do at this point. And most importantly, her DD is doing what makes her happy, but not what makes OP happy.

Why? Well because if you don’t keep your children together it will mess up your whole family dynamic permanently and DD’s relationship with you and DS’s relationship with his father may never recover.

You could have moved to a cheaper area and still sent her to a French school.

You and your ex made a decision, when your children were 8 and 11, to split siblings into two separate households and parent them separately. You had two further children which your ds lived with. I would imagine your dd felt she just didn't fit in to that family dynamic and was probably always on the outside whether that was intentional or not. I would wonder whether she has any meaningful relationship with her step siblings or brother? I find it pretty shitty of her brother to be blabbing to you about how "dysfunctional" her life is. It is none of his dam business. I also find it pretty shitty of you to be comparing her to him as if you did such a better job at parenting then your ex, your post implies "look at the one I parented and how well they turned out". Tbh you and your ex's decision back when she was 8 has probably had the biggest impact on her and who she is now so you don't get to lay the blame all at your exes door.