I think my DD is wasting her life away and Ex is enabling it

[Bigorangeballoons]

This could be a little complex so I’ll give some background first.
I have 4 DC, 2 with my ex husband. My 2 eldest with my ex are 22 and 19. We divorced when they were 6 and 9. My Ex is French and we lived in London, both of our children attended a French language school. For 2 years we both lived local to the school but the area was very expensive. DS decided at 11 he wanted to go to a “normal school”. Stupidly my ex and I agreed DD would live with him as the primary parent and I would move further out for DS to go to secondary school. I then had 2 more children. DD continued living with her dad and going to French school. Upon reflection I should never have left DD with her dad, at first I had her every weekend then by the time she was 11/12 every other weekend and she spent most of it at her hobbies. Ex spoiled her rotten, she was his little princess. He never really spoiled DS the same and they have a very strained relationship as a result while DS and I are very close. Ex bought DD the newest iPhone at 11, upgraded it often, she had a MacBook at 12, let her spend stupid amounts of money on clothes, took her to loads of gigs, took her on trips alone (snowboarding mostly as DS never enjoyed snow sports), paid for all her hobbies. Apparently she was golden for her dad, never misbehaved etc. But with me she was a nightmare, she’d get so stroppy, ignored curfews, constantly shouted at my now husband that he isn’t her dad and he shouldn’t even talk to her as a result. Punishment rarely worked as by Sunday night she was back at her dads and being spoiled again.
When she was 16, my ex told me he was moving back to France and wanted to take DD with him. I didn’t want this to happen but eventually I gave in and let her move with him, mainly as I felt if I said no she would be horrific to live with and view me as the reason and it would break our already tense relationship entirely.

She is a clever girl, did really well in school, settled down with her behaviour a lot after moving when she would come back to visit. She started university in France in the autumn but dropped out. Her dad now pays for a flat which she shares with her 22 year old boyfriend. She doesn’t work, doesn’t study, she is in a band, who write their own music and do play some very small gigs but it’s not making money. She messages me and I have tried to visit her alone without my husband or other children but the last 2 times I’ve done this once in the summer I got all the way there and only met up with her for a meal one night, she was busy or ‘ill’ the other 2 days. Then just before Christmas she again met up with me to trade presents but only for dinner one night, apparently again too busy to see me on the other days.

My older son went to see her and their dad over the weekend and today when he got home he told me her life is “a mess”. Apparently she is smoking loads, drinking loads, spends her days just messing about and has no plans to go back to uni. Her dad is paying her rent, he gives her an allowance to buy whatever she wants etc. Apparently her dad fully supports her and her “boyfriend and band mates” and they are all just following the creative process!

I have no idea what to do, her dad won’t talk to me and I have a feeling anything I said to DD would be ignored. I feel like I messed up by ever letting her live with her dad full time as he is clearly an incompetent parent.

AIBU to feel I have failed her? What do I do? Is there even anything I can do?

I believe the official response to this is:

You obviously know far more about op’s family situation than she does LuciferTheMorningStar!

Did you read the op properly? The parents were already split and divorced both living separately near the French school in an expensive area and op post-divorce could not afford to continue to live there.

So when her son decided he wanted to go to a “normal” school (btw if you know anything about the French education system it’s quite rigid and extremely rigorous if you go down the academic route and doesn’t suit every child) then op used that opportunity to move further away.

The dd stayed at the French school and with her dad because she was academically able and enjoyed it and her dad could afford to live nearby,

I don’t see anywhere that that equates to abandonment. Parents often make difficult decisions to ensure that their dc get the best education for them.

@Allbutterwaffle68 are you on the right thread? I can see how it was flattering to your ex to have an adoring dd by his side. Really despicable that he didn’t seem bothered by your son who he may be challenged by? Your ex has opted for the easy way out every time hasn’t he? And you are left to pick up the pieces.
the op is the one who fractured the family and abandoned her daughter because of what her son wanted. Were she and her dad meant to remain in London and not do what’s best for them? What pieces is she picking up? How has the ex taken the easy way out being what sounds like a good supportive dad to a teen?

I’ll clarify why I moved when DS wanted to move schools. Anyone familiar with London will know the French school is in a very very expensive area, post divorce I couldn’t keep living there permanently regardless of DS or DD, their father could as he was a significantly higher earner.
When DS wanted to move schools the main driving force was he wanted more opportunities for sport, not many central London schools have good sports facilities. I didn’t move to the back arse of no where, I moved to just north of London where DS could go to a school with good sports facilities and I could afford to live. DD did not want to move, strangely from fairly young even in a french school, DS used English as his main language, DD used French, so there was also consideration to having both children educated in their dominant language.

So you were still in London, but only saw her every second weekend?

I think everyone else is on a different thread or maybe even planet tbh!

Has no one really never heard before of the phenomenon of two people divorcing and moving in to different houses?

Yes the children usually stay together in one house - usually with their mother - and see the father eow.

In this instance the dd went to live with the father, because he lived nearby the school that suited her best.

And the ds went to live with his mother, who couldn’t afford to stay in South Ken because the French Lycee wasn’t a good match for him.

If you read the thread, the dd still visited her mum regularly, there was no question of abandonment,

But the way the ex parented her, without agreeing on boundaries and fair distribution of presents and tech by the sound of it, made parenting for op very difficult. As it always is with an ex who won’t parent responsibly and fairly.

Edited to say I am assuming this is the French Lycée at S Ken. I don’t know for sure!

Of course is bad but it's also part of being a teenager to do things that are bad for you. I certainly drank and smoked too much at that age. Now I'm mid-40s and I am perfectly normal with a salary, a house, kids etc.

Her career in music might be successful, or it might just be a lot of fun and she will look back at that time with a smile on her face when she's 50. I don't know why you claim she has absolutely no goals and ambition, she is working towards a music career hopefully. Honestly, I can't believe how narrow-minded some people on this thread are. There are different ways to live your life. If you want to be a successful chef you are not going to go to uni and study accounting, if you want to be a pro tennis player you are not going to to uni and study history, if you want to be a musician you are not going to go to uni and study law. At least not until you have given it your all to become what you want to.

I love the way everyone is piling on the op
and no one is asking how often the dad saw his son!

I work full time so after school wasn’t possible, as she got older school days were also very long and she had hobbies after school. It was every weekend at first but she wanted more time with friends and her dad, so we swapped to every other weekend.
When do you suppose I should have seen her other than that? She finished school as late as 5.30, wouldn’t have been back to my house until 6.30, then having dinner and getting back to her dads as she never wanted to travel to school from my house in the mornings (and often had music lessons before school), so we’d have maybe got an extra hour if I’d done a weeknight too.

well probably because the mother is complaining about the daughter, and how she was brought up.
If the father came on here complaining how his son had been brought up, then Im sure that question would be asked

So when she was younger you didn't give a toss about her only her brother? And now you think you can tell her what do as a adult? 😂😂😂 Stay out of it you made your choice when you pissed off and made a new family without her

OP is hoping she'll get sympathy because she's a woman she's the dropkick parent here that left if she was a father that left he'd get the same comments so why does she get a free pass at being a crappy mum?

Why the OP and her ex did what they did and whether it was the best decision is neither here nor there. It happened, it can't be changed and its the consequences for the present day and how OP can improve on the current situation that's the important thing.
My advice is to work on building the relationship with DD from where you are now. You can't expect to go in and change how she is parented, that horse has bolted. You need to approach this as an interested, loving adult to adult. Easy on the advice and judgement, heavy on the positivity and support. When you've established yourself then it may be appropriate to offer some guidance and influence. But ultimately she is a grown woman who will do as she pleases, so you might do better to think in terms of acceptance rather than change.

Finally some common sense! It sounds like OP is just pissed he was a better parent than her

You opted out for years and now you're pissed off at the consequences of that.

Them's the breaks, unfortunately.

People are so much weirder about mothers who are not the primary carer. My friend is separated from her first partner and the dad had custody of the son with my friend having visitation (mutually agreed).

The level of vitriol my friend faces when people hear that is wild!

She did not “leave” the parents separated. So they live separately.

That’s normal for divorced parents.

Each child wanted separate things from schooling (son wanted sports, daughter wanted to continue a French language education.) And given OP could not afford to remain in that neighbourhood what would you suggest?

Pull the daughter out of school to with her mom?

Refuse to allow her son to change school with more sports on offer?

The op has been honest and laid out what happened and how she wasn’t happy about the way things worked out and is feeling worried about her dd because she cares about her and is worried that her DD’s early childhood experiences, and her decisions, are impacting on her now.

And many pps have seen fit to kick her when she is down and make her feel even worse.

An unhappy divorce where one of the parties does not behave fairly and cooperate well can be hellish to negotiate. But no one is criticising the dad, just praising him for spoiling the dd with presents!

Anyway, however we view this situation, we are all giving the op more or less the same advice so I don’t suppose it matters, but it’s a shame women are so willing to pile on other women when they post on here for advice.

Yes there’s a massive double standard at work. A man is automatically a hero if a child lives with him after a divorce and the women is automatically a pariah. Ridiculous! Especially in this situation where they each took on one child.

It’s even weirder here as people are lauding the dad yet criticising the mom for both doing the same thing!

OFGS! She’s 22! Let her live life a little and learn a few life lessons herself. When Jarvis Cocker was 25 he was living in a squat on benefits and he didn’t too badly in the end?!

Not according to op. DS decided at 11 he wanted to go to a “normal school”. Stupidly my ex and I agreed DD would live with him as the primary parent and I would move further out for DS to go to secondary school. I then had 2 more children. DD continued living with her dad and going to French school.
no separation of relationship at this point, op moved out with ds because he wanted to change school not because the relationship was over.

Yes - all of that is what I said. Click on all of OP’s posts.

Here is what she said:

I’ll clarify why I moved when DS wanted to move schools. Anyone familiar with London will know the French school is in a very very expensive area, post divorce I couldn’t keep living there permanently regardless of DS or DD, their father could as he was a significantly higher earner.
When DS wanted to move schools the main driving force was he wanted more opportunities for sport, not many central London schools have good sports facilities. I didn’t move to the back arse of no where, I moved to just north of London where DS could go to a school with good sports facilities and I could afford to live. DD did not want to move, strangely from fairly young even in a french school, DS used English as his main language, DD used French, so there was also consideration to having both children educated in their dominant language.

You have not answered what OP should have done?

Refused to allow the son to change school? Insisted the daughter leave school too? Which is your preferred option? And how does the now divorced OP continue to afford the expensive area she lived in when married?

They are exes. Exes generally live separately and given her son wanted to do sports and central London schools don’t have the facilities he would want, what is your suggestion?

She literally calls referred to him as her “ex”. They were already divorced when she moved to another neighbourhood.

Christ if you can’t start a band at 19 and do a bit of drinking when bloody can you?

not everyone wants to work in 9-5 jobs all
their bloody life and if you can’t spend a bit of time exploring options when you are 19 when are you supposed to do it?

i retired recently and music enriches my life. I sing in two choirs, I play in a brass band and I also now am exploring early music instruments. What is with this hatred of music and the arts?