I think my DD is wasting her life away and Ex is enabling it

[Bigorangeballoons]

This could be a little complex so I’ll give some background first.
I have 4 DC, 2 with my ex husband. My 2 eldest with my ex are 22 and 19. We divorced when they were 6 and 9. My Ex is French and we lived in London, both of our children attended a French language school. For 2 years we both lived local to the school but the area was very expensive. DS decided at 11 he wanted to go to a “normal school”. Stupidly my ex and I agreed DD would live with him as the primary parent and I would move further out for DS to go to secondary school. I then had 2 more children. DD continued living with her dad and going to French school. Upon reflection I should never have left DD with her dad, at first I had her every weekend then by the time she was 11/12 every other weekend and she spent most of it at her hobbies. Ex spoiled her rotten, she was his little princess. He never really spoiled DS the same and they have a very strained relationship as a result while DS and I are very close. Ex bought DD the newest iPhone at 11, upgraded it often, she had a MacBook at 12, let her spend stupid amounts of money on clothes, took her to loads of gigs, took her on trips alone (snowboarding mostly as DS never enjoyed snow sports), paid for all her hobbies. Apparently she was golden for her dad, never misbehaved etc. But with me she was a nightmare, she’d get so stroppy, ignored curfews, constantly shouted at my now husband that he isn’t her dad and he shouldn’t even talk to her as a result. Punishment rarely worked as by Sunday night she was back at her dads and being spoiled again.
When she was 16, my ex told me he was moving back to France and wanted to take DD with him. I didn’t want this to happen but eventually I gave in and let her move with him, mainly as I felt if I said no she would be horrific to live with and view me as the reason and it would break our already tense relationship entirely.

She is a clever girl, did really well in school, settled down with her behaviour a lot after moving when she would come back to visit. She started university in France in the autumn but dropped out. Her dad now pays for a flat which she shares with her 22 year old boyfriend. She doesn’t work, doesn’t study, she is in a band, who write their own music and do play some very small gigs but it’s not making money. She messages me and I have tried to visit her alone without my husband or other children but the last 2 times I’ve done this once in the summer I got all the way there and only met up with her for a meal one night, she was busy or ‘ill’ the other 2 days. Then just before Christmas she again met up with me to trade presents but only for dinner one night, apparently again too busy to see me on the other days.

My older son went to see her and their dad over the weekend and today when he got home he told me her life is “a mess”. Apparently she is smoking loads, drinking loads, spends her days just messing about and has no plans to go back to uni. Her dad is paying her rent, he gives her an allowance to buy whatever she wants etc. Apparently her dad fully supports her and her “boyfriend and band mates” and they are all just following the creative process!

I have no idea what to do, her dad won’t talk to me and I have a feeling anything I said to DD would be ignored. I feel like I messed up by ever letting her live with her dad full time as he is clearly an incompetent parent.

AIBU to feel I have failed her? What do I do? Is there even anything I can do?

is your only thought there that she could come to yours?! Why couldnt you have met her from school?!? You could have taken her to a park, out for dinner, whatever, then dropped her home! Did that not occur to you? Sorry but I cannot imagine a life where I saw my ten year old once every two weeks only. Yes, I know loads of dads do this, I have zero respect for that too. In fact, my own ex only sees his children twice per week. One of my daughters says she doesn’t see him as a parent, she likes him well enough, but doesn’t feel like he’s contributed to her upbringing.

But “the way things worked out” was her choice so she needs to take responsibility for it rather than blaming her ex and DD.

Unhappy divorces are two a penny they don’t usually result in splitting the children up.

Eh?!? This whole slight tangent is super weird.
its because it’s the mum posting to talk about her daughter!!!
the dad and his son have literally zero relevance to this thread!

It was the father’s choice to move countries remember, away from his son.

When she was 16, my ex told me he was moving back to France and wanted to take DD with him. I didn’t want this to happen but eventually I gave in …

So not entirely op’s choice!

I think it's fine. Dad's raised his daughter, she's wanted for nothing, and if he's willing to fund her creative career let them have at it 🤷‍♀️ what is the problem? She'll get an office job if its that or starve no doubt. Its her life, she's an adult.

Not true. Posters are criticising op for “abandoning” her dd when she did no such thing and it was the ex who decided to move countries away from his son.

You can’t just conveniently separate off the op’s decisions from what her ex was doing because his actions, have impacted adversely on her.

The moving out of south Ken, the switching to a state school, the splitting up of the siblings are all kinda understandable given the circumstances.

what is awful is the lack of effort from that point on of the mum, the op, to form a relationship with her dd. (And yes, I’ll add the utterly pointless caveat that seems to be required of maybe the dad to his son too). She could have made the effort to visit her DD, take her to events, take her on holiday etc. she didn’t do any of that, just went on to make a shiny new family.

yes - That is ‘having a go’ at the op, but it’s also completely blooming relevant if the op wants a chance to have any kind of relationship with her DD going forward.

many children would go no contact with their mother at this point.

if the op wants any chance at all to form a relationship with her dd, she needs to first acknowledge and apologise for her fairly shoddy parenting.

From 16 onwards, sure. But from 8yo? When she lived an hour away? Not so much.

She could have made the effort to visit her DD, take her to events, take her on holiday etc. she didn’t do any of that, just went on to make a shiny new family.

And you know this how?

To me it sounds like the ex was on a significantly higher wage and could afford to take his dd on ski trips and buy her the latest tech. Note that he didn’t bother to make the same effort with his son.

The op was on a significantly smaller wage and had two other dc to support.

It sounds like op tried her best but when compared with her dad’s indulgent parenting, it was always going to be an unfair competition. Of course the dd is going to prefer being spoiled by her dad until she gets older and realises what real love is.

I know this because the op said it.
in about her 3rd post if memory serves. ‘I couldn’t see her more than 2x a month because it would take her too long to get to our house.’
absolutely no thought of herself doing the travelling! So she didn’t make the effort.
children number 3 & 4 were detailed in the op and were (presumably/hopefully) her own choice to have.
She chose having more children, and leaving the parenting of her dd to her father. That was her choice.
so, now, no, she doesn’t get a say.
she has a chance of a future, but only if she takes accountability.

I just don’t understand this at all.

I can understand because my children have attended French secondary school and you are totally locked in to it. They work them very hard during term time. There is very little time for anything else. Continuous testing. And I also understand how long it can take to travel between North London and South Ken on a weekday evening at rush hour.

And what was op supposed to do if her say fifteen year old dd said “I’ve got too much homework to come over this evening mum and my dad is taking me phone shopping on Saturday morning”

Hide behind a lamppost and rugby tackle her adolescent dd in to her car?

Common sense dictates that most teens want to stick with the resident parent more once school study gets more demanding and their friendships get more intense. That’s completely normal. You see it written about on here all the time. The mother should not be blamed for it.

That wasn’t until 16 when she’d lived with him for 7 years already. The reason OP let her go was because she already had such a bad relationship with DD that she felt she would get blamed if she didn’t say yes.

If they’d had shared custody of both kids from the start he wouldn’t have been able to take one of them away.

Omg. She did share custody.

She agreed to her dd living with her ex for educational reasons because she thought that would be the best thing for her dd.

She put her DD’s wants ahead of her own.

OP chose to have more children to support! These are not things that passively happened to OP these are active choices that she made. With consequences. She didn’t have to take DD skiing camping in Wales would do.

And now she has a poor relationship she’s playing the victim and blaming ex for giving DD too much money when really she didn’t give DD enough time and attention.

I had other children to care for!

Shared custody of both kids - ie both kids in the same house together.

What OP actually says is that she moved because the area was expensive DS wanted to go to a ‘normal’ school.

@Allbutterwaffle68 It sounds like op tried her best but when compared with her dad’s indulgent parenting, it was always going to be an unfair competition. Of course the dd is going to prefer being spoiled by her dad until she gets older and realises what real love is.
it sounds like typical Kensington parenting?
how awful of you to insinuate her dad doesn’t love her!

And that’s fine but they came the price of a relationship with DD.

I did take her on holiday, 2 times a year reliably, once to visit my parents who live in Spain and one 2 week family holiday.
I of course took her to events on my weekend with her, often I’d take her to the indoor snow centre near where I live. The only thing I didn’t do was see her after school, she often had tennis or dance classes after school, not to mention she was learning piano, guitar and drums for a lot of her teens so even if I had been able to see her after work, she was busy!

Of course! Move over dd!

This sounds like an amazing childhood that many neglected or abused kids can only dream of having. The key factor here is that he spent money on shared experiences so it wasn't just to buy himself free time. Going snowboarding and to concerts with your dad sounds fantastic. I would not be surprised if she loves music and created a band as a direct result of spending time with her father at gigs.

Yes it sounds great doesn’t it.

It depends.

If the dad is doing what he enjoys anyway and is bringing the dd along for the ride then it’s pleasant but it’s not exactly stellar parenting.

These were solo trips with his daughter remember because the son didn’t enjoy winter sports.

What loving parent repeatedly takes one child away on holiday and not the other?

Most parents would try and make the effort to find out what their other child loved and take them away to do that.

Op also said her ex allowed her dd to spend ridiculous amounts of money on clothes.

Is that really loving parenting? indulging your child’s every wish and not teaching them to value money and stick to a budget, to set boundaries, and to allow them to suffer disappointment occasionally?

It can be interpreted as loving from the outside. But look in more detail and it’s not that great.

In fairness to my ex, he did offer to take DS on holidays too but he never wanted to go, they all went to France basically every year for new year, sometimes Christmas too and DS went on those trips, but we also did 2 trips as a family so he felt he didn’t want to be away from his friends anymore than that.
Ex and I agreed that to split costs I would get DS tech/phone and he would get DD, I just never expected our 11 year old to be walking around with a brand new pro model iPhone or MacBook Pro.
DD also had way more school holidays than DS so sometimes it was a case of DS couldn’t go as he was in school and DD wasn’t. The trade there was DD had much longer school days.

That’s a very honest response re hols @Bigorangeballoons and one most wouldn’t choose to share! :)

If she couldn’t afford to live in S Ken post-divorce of course she had to move away. Not many people can afford to live there!

What people are not taking on board is the linguistic divide in this family.

One child wanted to continue to be educated in French, within the French national curriculum.

And one child wanted to move to the English-speaking system.

The two systems are not compatible. If the dd wanted to go to uni in France, she had to stick within the French system. You can’t switch about.

What was the op supposed to do? Deny her dd her chosen educational preferences?

OP hasn't said anything about what the dad did with his son but considering the son goes and sees his dad in France it does sound like they have a fine relationship, especially if you compare to OP and her DD since the DD actively avoids her mum.

What is ridiculous amounts of money on clothes? If you have a lot of money, what you spend on anything would seem ridiculous to those without money. The dad is richer than OP, he only had one child living with him compared to OPs 3 children, of course he is going to be able to spend more. It's all relative. OP begrudges her DD getting a laptop, a phone and all kinds of things most teens get from their parents.

Lstly, you don't think OPs DD has suffered disappointment? Her own mother chose her brother over her, then chose a new man and half-siblings over her. That is the crux of it from the DDs point of view and that is probably why the dad has felt a need to overcompensate a bit, if he has.