I think my DD is wasting her life away and Ex is enabling it

[Bigorangeballoons]

This could be a little complex so I’ll give some background first.
I have 4 DC, 2 with my ex husband. My 2 eldest with my ex are 22 and 19. We divorced when they were 6 and 9. My Ex is French and we lived in London, both of our children attended a French language school. For 2 years we both lived local to the school but the area was very expensive. DS decided at 11 he wanted to go to a “normal school”. Stupidly my ex and I agreed DD would live with him as the primary parent and I would move further out for DS to go to secondary school. I then had 2 more children. DD continued living with her dad and going to French school. Upon reflection I should never have left DD with her dad, at first I had her every weekend then by the time she was 11/12 every other weekend and she spent most of it at her hobbies. Ex spoiled her rotten, she was his little princess. He never really spoiled DS the same and they have a very strained relationship as a result while DS and I are very close. Ex bought DD the newest iPhone at 11, upgraded it often, she had a MacBook at 12, let her spend stupid amounts of money on clothes, took her to loads of gigs, took her on trips alone (snowboarding mostly as DS never enjoyed snow sports), paid for all her hobbies. Apparently she was golden for her dad, never misbehaved etc. But with me she was a nightmare, she’d get so stroppy, ignored curfews, constantly shouted at my now husband that he isn’t her dad and he shouldn’t even talk to her as a result. Punishment rarely worked as by Sunday night she was back at her dads and being spoiled again.
When she was 16, my ex told me he was moving back to France and wanted to take DD with him. I didn’t want this to happen but eventually I gave in and let her move with him, mainly as I felt if I said no she would be horrific to live with and view me as the reason and it would break our already tense relationship entirely.

She is a clever girl, did really well in school, settled down with her behaviour a lot after moving when she would come back to visit. She started university in France in the autumn but dropped out. Her dad now pays for a flat which she shares with her 22 year old boyfriend. She doesn’t work, doesn’t study, she is in a band, who write their own music and do play some very small gigs but it’s not making money. She messages me and I have tried to visit her alone without my husband or other children but the last 2 times I’ve done this once in the summer I got all the way there and only met up with her for a meal one night, she was busy or ‘ill’ the other 2 days. Then just before Christmas she again met up with me to trade presents but only for dinner one night, apparently again too busy to see me on the other days.

My older son went to see her and their dad over the weekend and today when he got home he told me her life is “a mess”. Apparently she is smoking loads, drinking loads, spends her days just messing about and has no plans to go back to uni. Her dad is paying her rent, he gives her an allowance to buy whatever she wants etc. Apparently her dad fully supports her and her “boyfriend and band mates” and they are all just following the creative process!

I have no idea what to do, her dad won’t talk to me and I have a feeling anything I said to DD would be ignored. I feel like I messed up by ever letting her live with her dad full time as he is clearly an incompetent parent.

AIBU to feel I have failed her? What do I do? Is there even anything I can do?

Actually what I would do is develop a very strong interest in her band and be as supportive as possible. It's what she's interested in and it's not your choice but she isn't you. She's has forever to grow up.

She’ll never have to grow up with a father who pays for everything. He has spoilt her and that is not good parenting.

Maybe the clues as to how she was feeling were there in how she behaved with you. Did you talk to her about how she felt and that she may have felt with the living arrangements? And how far out did you move? At that time you had 2 more children said as a bit of an afterthought but having two babies and small
children takes up a huge amount of time. And your daughter was left with not seeing her mum. The issues you had with her ‘bad behaviour’ was her telling you how she felt.
It sounds like you wanted a perfect child to visit for the weekend and resented her father for simply looking after her and giving her things that are actually quite normal.

If this is the case, then her ex is also 'the bad parent' as he hasnt done anything for his son that he did for his daughter?

OP, I think you need to build some bridges. This won't be done by telling off, or trying to control. Why not ask to come see the band play on a visit? Try to meet your daughter where she is at.

I don't think her life sounds good actually, she does sound like a waster. But right now, you're in no position to influence her. You need to repair your relationship first and foremost. Worry about how to best influence her once shes at a point she would listen to you!

He sounds like a lovely dad and it seems like they have a wonderful bond. She’s young and having fun, I don’t think your DS ‘her life is a mess’ is anything but jealousy. Smoking and dropping out of uni is not the end of the world.

It sounds like she’s having the time of her life, be happy for her. I agree with PP that it seems like you begrudge the childhood she had and the life she has now.

Not understanding why you had to move away for son to attend secondary school?

You were in London, rammed with secondary schools.... it's hardly a hamlet in the middle of nowhere and the kids are getting bussed to the nearest town 40 minutes away.

Personally I think he's a shit dad. As a PP said, he's spoiled her & she's failed to launch.

If I were you, I'd keep the lines of communication open but let her get on with it.
She'll either mature in time & get a job etc, or she won't & will always be a bit feckless...

You’re both rubbish parents to her - her dad hasn’t let her be independent and you rarely saw her from the age of 12, moved further away and had more children. She’s 19 so it’s 7 years too late.

I had no career direction in my 20s and needed help from my parents, not very dissimilar to this dd. The reasons for this were personal and complicated, but a near-absent parent hovering around (and looking to find fault) might not have seen the whole picture. I'm nearly 40 now, married with a decent career and comfortable income.

If you'd described the younger me as "utterly failed to launch", I'd have had some serious problems with you. How nasty. I launched just fine, maybe better than most as I had the benefit of making career/study decisions as a more experienced adult.

OP, there are plenty of women on this site, older than your dd, who chose a life of quitting work and being "bankrolled" by their husbands. Nobody accuses them of wasting their lives, failing to launch, squandering their career opportunities, or dossing about. (and rightly so).

There is something about your post that’s a bit delusional to me. A sort ‘oh no if completely avoidable circumstances hadn’t forced me to abandon my daughter I would have been an infinitely better parent to her.’.
Suggest you focus your attention on yourself & your own self development. At 22 her life is her own. Her lack of interest in a relationship with you speaks volumes, you’re an obligation. Judgement & criticism are not the way the repair the bridge.

Agree with everyone else. Stay out of it. Try and be there to support dd when you can. Otherwise she has a great life and if she’s happy that good. She has lots of time to get a job etc when she’s older.

I don’t think there is much you can do other than trying to maintain or build your relationship with her. She might be avoiding you if she thinks you will judge her.

Lots of 22 year olds are like this and so she may well grow up and grow out of it but it’s better if she is able to tell you if she’s struggling and that’s what I would be aiming for which involves biting your tongue a lot of the time.

Sad story, while your dh took great care of your dd, the wounds of maternal abandonment will never ever heal.

Leave her be, you really have no right to say anything whatsoever. If you are lucky, she'll continue seeing you socially occasionally.

Your dh sounds like a very caring father but he shouldn't have agreed to you moving away when you did. Odd parental choice to say the least. Your poor dd.

Her and her dad obviously have quite similar personalities whereas you and your son are a bit more black and white and square in your thinking. I lived in Paris in my late teens/early 20s and plenty of young adults lived similarly to how your DD lives. They turned out just fine, but with a whole lot of interesting stories to tell. She isn't wasting her life just because she's trying to follow a dream. If everybody just finished school, went to uni, got a job we wouldn't have many artists, professional athletes, musicians etc. We can't all be accountants and middle managers.

The more you fight this the further you will get from your DD. She has chosen her path for now, you chose to move away with her sibling, meet a new man and create a new family. Probably not what she wanted either.

I agree with this.

I am also surprised by so many posters who think this kind of life for a young person is perfectly ok. I've seen entire threads devoted to how awful it is when a young person fails to launch. Add in the weed which is generally frowned upon on here...I find myself wondering if it's the Mumsnet obsession with the French and the rich. Does everything seem more acceptable if you're doing it in France with a fuck ton of money?

My first thought, wrongly or rightly is, has she taken this path because she feels abandoned by her mother? I cannot imagine any situation where I would willingly split siblings.

For me it feels a bit late in the day to be worrying about her wasting her life, the damage is done. Perhaps rebuilding a better relationship should be your first concern.

This. Her entire education was in French so
why shouldn’t she continue that?

you basically said “your db wants a different school so he gets that and I’m leaving you..”
seriously in all of London and surrounding
area no school for him?!
absolutely you both have a favourite!

This. Her entire education was in French so
why shouldn’t she continue that?

you basically said “your db wants a different school so he gets that and I’m leaving you..”
seriously in all of London and surrounding
area no school for him?!
absolutely you both have a favourite!

You need to work on your relationship first. No judgement, no parenting (she’s an adult now). No wonder she doesn’t want to spend time with you when you think she’s a spoiled little princess who is wasting her life. All is not lost, prioritise having fun and creating connection.

She is 19 years old. She has so much time to figure out what else she might want to do and "launch". If she wants to give the band a go for a while and her dad is happy to help her with that then I don't see the problem. If she was 28, still lived at home, didn't work or study I would feel differently, but this a teen living independently and pursuing something that might take off at some point.

Are you jealous @Bigorangeballoons ?

I was thinking this. If it was a working class 20 year old in Manchester or Glasgow behaving like this, I bet fault would be found. Mumsnet users seem to really fetishise the French
but, I think the horse has bolted regarding her daughter: she’s an adult now. When she was a teenager, or course she wouldn’t have wanted to visit her mum; a weekend with small children / babies as a teenager would had been so dull.

What a ridiculous accusation 😂

She's not really living 'independently' either is she? She is entirely bank rolled by her dad. Whilst it is completely normal for kids of that age to flounder a bit and lose direction, I'm not convinced the best way to deal with this is to provide them with endless money for drink and weed.

Unfortunately for the op though she's kind of lost any meaningful relationship with her so there's not a lot she can do.

Your poor DD. You basically left her and now want to criticise.

I don't think it's OK, but I'm also realistic about young adults, especially these days. They seem much younger than they used to be. And even more so in the richer continental European nations. My two half siblings' DM is from one of those, whereas my DM is from Eastern Europe. There's an age difference, but also a huge difference in values and expectations. DBro has multiple disabilities so he's a slightly different case, but DSis sorted herself out in her 30s after an aimless decade of job hopping, smoking, drinking, crap boyfriends, shitty house shares, travelling and being bailed out by DF and DSM's family. She's now getting married and has the kind of corporate job she said she'd rather die than do at OP's DD's age. OP's DD is too young to be written off just yet. My teen years were pretty awful, and I did a lot of partying and drinking at uni, but I've turned into the responsible eldest child. I've also got experience being the child left behind while a parent moves on, and that does leave its mark.