I think my DD is wasting her life away and Ex is enabling it

[Bigorangeballoons]

This could be a little complex so I’ll give some background first.
I have 4 DC, 2 with my ex husband. My 2 eldest with my ex are 22 and 19. We divorced when they were 6 and 9. My Ex is French and we lived in London, both of our children attended a French language school. For 2 years we both lived local to the school but the area was very expensive. DS decided at 11 he wanted to go to a “normal school”. Stupidly my ex and I agreed DD would live with him as the primary parent and I would move further out for DS to go to secondary school. I then had 2 more children. DD continued living with her dad and going to French school. Upon reflection I should never have left DD with her dad, at first I had her every weekend then by the time she was 11/12 every other weekend and she spent most of it at her hobbies. Ex spoiled her rotten, she was his little princess. He never really spoiled DS the same and they have a very strained relationship as a result while DS and I are very close. Ex bought DD the newest iPhone at 11, upgraded it often, she had a MacBook at 12, let her spend stupid amounts of money on clothes, took her to loads of gigs, took her on trips alone (snowboarding mostly as DS never enjoyed snow sports), paid for all her hobbies. Apparently she was golden for her dad, never misbehaved etc. But with me she was a nightmare, she’d get so stroppy, ignored curfews, constantly shouted at my now husband that he isn’t her dad and he shouldn’t even talk to her as a result. Punishment rarely worked as by Sunday night she was back at her dads and being spoiled again.
When she was 16, my ex told me he was moving back to France and wanted to take DD with him. I didn’t want this to happen but eventually I gave in and let her move with him, mainly as I felt if I said no she would be horrific to live with and view me as the reason and it would break our already tense relationship entirely.

She is a clever girl, did really well in school, settled down with her behaviour a lot after moving when she would come back to visit. She started university in France in the autumn but dropped out. Her dad now pays for a flat which she shares with her 22 year old boyfriend. She doesn’t work, doesn’t study, she is in a band, who write their own music and do play some very small gigs but it’s not making money. She messages me and I have tried to visit her alone without my husband or other children but the last 2 times I’ve done this once in the summer I got all the way there and only met up with her for a meal one night, she was busy or ‘ill’ the other 2 days. Then just before Christmas she again met up with me to trade presents but only for dinner one night, apparently again too busy to see me on the other days.

My older son went to see her and their dad over the weekend and today when he got home he told me her life is “a mess”. Apparently she is smoking loads, drinking loads, spends her days just messing about and has no plans to go back to uni. Her dad is paying her rent, he gives her an allowance to buy whatever she wants etc. Apparently her dad fully supports her and her “boyfriend and band mates” and they are all just following the creative process!

I have no idea what to do, her dad won’t talk to me and I have a feeling anything I said to DD would be ignored. I feel like I messed up by ever letting her live with her dad full time as he is clearly an incompetent parent.

AIBU to feel I have failed her? What do I do? Is there even anything I can do?

@BettyBoh you are simply an inconvenience as you represent responsibility.
the op?! responsibilty?! Abandoning your 8
year old to meet her older brothers demands, having 2 new dc, and never seeing your daughter is responsible now?! 🤪

What values and priorities does he have?

@BettyBoh You might consider TV screenwriting as a career - that is quite the scenario you've cooked up there

I’m not sure we should be so harsh on the OP. It’s not really clear what happened when the mum moved away, but the OP does recognise it was not a good decision. Maybe her daughter was showing signs of being difficult way back then and both parents are “responsibility -averse” in their own ways. The dad by being present but letting her do what she wants and funding it. The mum by not being present and avoiding emotional attachedments.

who knows? Imagine having two parents neither of whom felt they could be accountable when you needed them to be??

@BettyBoh ahh so you’re one of the “poor mum don’t be harsh!! She has reasons!!! It’s the dad’s fault!!”?

At 22 if my parents wanted to have any say or suggestions for my life I would of laughed in their face. Especially a. Parent who hasn't had much to do with me in my childhood.
Just back off, I'm pretty sure every single singer and musician had a parent who was worried they wernt going to make it, some do, some don't but she'll figure it out.

I think the first two PPs nailed it.

My DCs are young adults and I am also separated from their dad. DC2 is very immature for their age (due to neurodivergence) and still need a lot of parenting. It is very difficult to ‘parent’ adult DCs because they are allowed to ignore their mum and dad and it is even more challenging when there is another parent in the mix who refuses to communicate. DC2 recently had a very serious problem and their dad unwittingly did something to make the problem much worse - they were trying to help but didn’t understand how to help. I emailed my ex to explain but he just wrote back saying he didn’t understand. (Which interpreted as he didn’t want to understand because that would involve admitting he had let DC2 down). In the end, I managed to convince DC2 of the right course of action and the problem is now solved. But honestly, if was such a serious problem that I had several weeks of hardly sleeping due to the worry.

OP, I totally understand where you are coming from. It sounds like your DD has many positives, so let’s hope she sorts things out eventually. And remember she will have to drive things herself because she is an adult. I spent ages trying to sort out DC2’s problem and a very wise friend told me to get out of the driving seat - DC2 was choosing to follow exDP’s advice and it was on them if it led to disaster. Sometimes you just have to prepared to let your children learn the hard way if they won’t listen. Luckily, DC2 did eventually listen to me, though.

Not necessarily. If you see my reply above I do consider the possibility that the OP is responsibilty avoidant too. I think we don’t know enough about it all.

I feel like I messed up by ever letting her live with her dad full time as he is clearly an incompetent parent.

He isn't an 'incompetent parent'. Your daughter's an adult who is enjoying herself and doing her own thing while she figures out what she wants to do. She's just lucky enough to have someone who can fund that for a bit. He sounds perfectly competent to me. You just sound annoyed because you're not in control of your adult daughter's life and she isn't following the path you deem to be suitable for her.

How is this any different from all the gap year kids her age who are backpacking around the world and getting drunk on a beach every night?

She's not studying - so what? It's not compulsory to go to university. Right now, she's got an amazing opportunity to play in a band and see if that takes her anywhere. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. If it doesn't, she'll find something else to do. Sometimes it's good to have time to see where life takes you and she's lucky enough to have been given that time.

There's a line in Francoise Sagan's 'Bonjour Tristesse' when the narrator says 'I realised I was more gifted for kissing a young man in the sunshine than for taking a degree'. That's the point your daughter's at. She won't be at that point forever and I would be delighted that she's got the chance to enjoy it while she can.

You can't control what she does. She's an adult. You can't control what he facilities. All you can do is support her, if she allows you to, if it all goes tits up.

I think you have added a bit of non-existent content here. She isn't smoking and drinking all day, just more than her older brother is, and she is trying to pursue a career in music, that's not doing nothing. She has values (happiness, music, relationships) and she has priorities (happiness, music, relationships). She is only 19 years old, she doesn't need to take life so seriously just yet.

Just because she isn't following the footsteps of her brother doesn't mean she is doing life wrong or that her dad has raised her wrong. Allowing your children to be who they are without passing judgement is far better than trying to squeeze them into some mould that they don't want to be in.

I understand your frustration. Is there anyone else you can ask to speak her who you trust and who she respects?

I would say send her the link to the Ted talk “30s are not the new 20s” but she may react badly to that! Is it really impossible to broach the subject with your ex?

There seems to be a lot of blame on her dad for indulging her materially and no real responsibility for having ditched her when she was young. That’s why she was argumentative when she came to stay - she felt abandoned, excluded and struggled to find her place in a family of people she doesn’t know. That’s why she cold shoulders you now.

If you wanted to counterbalance your ex’s wealth you needed to be more present.

I don’t know why you think she owes you a relationship at this point.

@JHound and say what? “Your absent mother is now deciding to have an interest in your life as you’re having too much fun!”
she didn’t bother when you were a child but now you’re getting this, she just wants to stop it?

My son did similar, went to study in our home country and dropped out to pursue his music (plays several instruments and composes) but he did have to work to keep himself. He worked as a chef and in other hospitality jobs for several years but at the age of 28 grew up, studied for and passed an exam and is now in a very secure and well paid job earning far more than his siblings. Ironically his music has taken off as now he has enough spare time to devote to it.

As a parent It was hard to watch but sometimes you just have to let them get on with it and stand on the sidelines ready to step in if things go haywire.

Yeah, agree with this.

You didn't have much of a hand in raising her so can't complain now that she's grown into the adult you don't want her to be. And yes maybe you made the choices that you really felt were right at the time but hell would freeze over before I'd let one of my kids live with my ex. You haven't really been a 'mum' to her so she probably doesn't value your opinions and you need to stay out of it and let her make her own decisions now.

Out of interest what turned it round for you and motivated you to go to University again and eventually get a job?

I don't know how 2 grown adults could have decided that splitting siblings up at that young age was a good idea (I understand about the schools but still, very bad idea). They surely had enough to adjust to with their parents separation.

I think as others have already written, you can't do anything about this now. Just support her and have faith that she will find her way in life.

She wasn’t absent. She just did not have resident custody which is the case for millions of divorced parents.

Can you only have a view on your child’s life if you lived with the full time?

The daughter may end up
regretting this time and wonder why nobody ever warned her about what she was doing.

Nonsense. It’s not "telling tales" for OP's son to tell his mother what’s going on in the life of the sister he’s just visited. It’s completely natural, considering the son has a strong relationship with his mother but not (unsurprisingly, given their upbringing) with his sister.

But OP's daughter is an adult and there’s nothing OP can do at the moment.

I remember meeting a guy who loved music. Every moment he could, he would play guitar and write songs. I asked if he wanted to make that his career, and he sadly said no, his parents want him to use his brains and degree and go work in the defence industry. He was privately educated, and his parents had dictated his life direction. This gentle soul was going to follow their lead and go into work for an arms manufacturer, through contacts his dad had.

Support your DD. We all have different paths.

It doesn't sound like her life is a mess at all. Sounds like shes having a great time. Shes 22, enjoying herself and trying to make it in the music business. All power to her. Not everyone wants a boring 9-5 job and she's only 22, she has plenty of time for a career change or further studies if she decides that's what she wants, especially with family money behind her. I wonder whether your DS is jealous of her.

An ex of mine commiserated with a chap he met at a party in the 90s about how hard it is to make a living out of music. The guy was very low key and said actually he found it was fine. Turned out he was in Massive Attack

What you can do at the moment is stay constant, offer a place of love and safety free of judgement. If you push back on her current lifestyle choices you will distance yourself further.

Honestly, it sounds like something from a film or a book, and although I totally understand why it's concerning to you, there's also a romance to her living this bohemian creative life as a young adult in France. Which is possibly how she sees it.

You can't force her to change, you can't force her to go back to Uni. Her Dad's the one who can make a difference if he's the one financially backing her at the moment.

This is really bad advice. Smoking and drinking excessively are bad, she'll be damaging her lungs as well. A career in music won't be successful, she'll end won't make any money out of it and she'll be stuffed when the gravy train ends. She can't expect her dad to fund her forever, it'll stop one day.

There's a difference between having a hobby and doing music for fun and having absolute no goals and ambition to do anything whatsoever. My DC had a lot of fun at 19, but they were in education, had goals and were working towards something.

Happiness and vibes don't pay the bills.