I think my DD is wasting her life away and Ex is enabling it

[Bigorangeballoons]

This could be a little complex so I’ll give some background first.
I have 4 DC, 2 with my ex husband. My 2 eldest with my ex are 22 and 19. We divorced when they were 6 and 9. My Ex is French and we lived in London, both of our children attended a French language school. For 2 years we both lived local to the school but the area was very expensive. DS decided at 11 he wanted to go to a “normal school”. Stupidly my ex and I agreed DD would live with him as the primary parent and I would move further out for DS to go to secondary school. I then had 2 more children. DD continued living with her dad and going to French school. Upon reflection I should never have left DD with her dad, at first I had her every weekend then by the time she was 11/12 every other weekend and she spent most of it at her hobbies. Ex spoiled her rotten, she was his little princess. He never really spoiled DS the same and they have a very strained relationship as a result while DS and I are very close. Ex bought DD the newest iPhone at 11, upgraded it often, she had a MacBook at 12, let her spend stupid amounts of money on clothes, took her to loads of gigs, took her on trips alone (snowboarding mostly as DS never enjoyed snow sports), paid for all her hobbies. Apparently she was golden for her dad, never misbehaved etc. But with me she was a nightmare, she’d get so stroppy, ignored curfews, constantly shouted at my now husband that he isn’t her dad and he shouldn’t even talk to her as a result. Punishment rarely worked as by Sunday night she was back at her dads and being spoiled again.
When she was 16, my ex told me he was moving back to France and wanted to take DD with him. I didn’t want this to happen but eventually I gave in and let her move with him, mainly as I felt if I said no she would be horrific to live with and view me as the reason and it would break our already tense relationship entirely.

She is a clever girl, did really well in school, settled down with her behaviour a lot after moving when she would come back to visit. She started university in France in the autumn but dropped out. Her dad now pays for a flat which she shares with her 22 year old boyfriend. She doesn’t work, doesn’t study, she is in a band, who write their own music and do play some very small gigs but it’s not making money. She messages me and I have tried to visit her alone without my husband or other children but the last 2 times I’ve done this once in the summer I got all the way there and only met up with her for a meal one night, she was busy or ‘ill’ the other 2 days. Then just before Christmas she again met up with me to trade presents but only for dinner one night, apparently again too busy to see me on the other days.

My older son went to see her and their dad over the weekend and today when he got home he told me her life is “a mess”. Apparently she is smoking loads, drinking loads, spends her days just messing about and has no plans to go back to uni. Her dad is paying her rent, he gives her an allowance to buy whatever she wants etc. Apparently her dad fully supports her and her “boyfriend and band mates” and they are all just following the creative process!

I have no idea what to do, her dad won’t talk to me and I have a feeling anything I said to DD would be ignored. I feel like I messed up by ever letting her live with her dad full time as he is clearly an incompetent parent.

AIBU to feel I have failed her? What do I do? Is there even anything I can do?

I think you have enough insight I to where the relationship went wrong that you don't need a bunch of mumsnetters sticking the boot in. She does sound directionless and indulged but you can't do anything about that. You need to remain non judgemental and consistent and keep letting her know you're there for her. She will grow up eventually and hopefully she will seek more of a relationship with you when she does. She might not, however, and you need to be prepared for that.

She’s 22. There’s nothing you can do. She’ll likely grow out of it. For most people that lifestyle gets boring after a few years.

I think she's only 19, it's the son that's 22. So not much time at all has been "wasted". The mum moved away when the son was 11 and then a few years later when the daughter was 11-12 she started visiting her less so the son must be older.

No, but it does seem more acceptable if you're in a band and writing music. As Snoken said above, we can't all be middle managers. The world needs artists.

Her band may not be successful right now, but how many now-huge bands can you name who made money from Day One? Everyone starts somewhere.

And even if they never make it big, does that really mean she's wasted her life? More so than someone who did everything by the book and toiled away in a job they were indifferent to, or even disliked, for decade after decade?

To her it will seem you preferred your DS as you moved for him to go to school (why was that even necessary in London?). You can't rock up now all these years later and expect to have a say and have her time. You showed through your actions DS was your priority. Unfortunately all you can do now is be supportive and positive towards her.

Why’s it “sticking the boot in” to state facts? Ops son wanted a particular school so rather than he go and board… or say no.. op split the family.
you can’t say “ds wants this lifestyle so everything is getting up ended for him..” and then say “how awful it it you are also choosing the lifestyle you want! Poor me!!”

It’s difficult to tell from your op, as I think you’ve glossed quickly over bits you don’t want to dwell on. But what would she say about her childhood in front of a counsellor? Do you owe her a huge apology as a start of mending the bridge?

the things that didn’t stand up for me are the - we moved - from London - to get to a secondary school. That’s unlikely to be true. And then there was the arguments with the your new husband. Just musing and it might not be true but - did you meet a boyfriend she hated and that was why you moved? Did you prioritise him over her?

huge projection so dismiss if it’s invalid, as my point is that to start making amends you first need to own your part in the sequence of events that has led her to now be dossing about.

There's nothing you can do. You divided your parenting in two rather than doing all of it between you, and each of you has raised the DC you were responsible for as you saw fit.
Your DD is young and is fortunate enough to be supported to do what a great many young people would love to do. In time it's highly possible if they get nowhere the band will break up and they will find other things to do with their lives. Meanwhile, she is safe, housed and presumably happy.
I think you need to be careful not to see your DD as a product of your exes work. Because you disapprove of his parenting, it's easy to fall into the trap of affirmation bias and over see the negatives about DD. Your DS seems to be colluding in this. You've decided as a household dad is incompetent, so he may be keen to report back the evidence that affirms this.
I think if you want an ongoing and better relationship with your DD you need to shelve your judgement of her lifestyle and meet her where she is. That's your best bet of being able to have any influence over her. Because you don't have that by default, so need to earn it.

Absolutely this. She was only 8 years old when her mum moved away from her so that she could prioritise her brother and potentially her new boyfriend. I can't imagine doing that to any of children. By doing that she also fractured the relationship between the siblings of course.

You gave up on her and moved on. You don't get to wag your finger now.

I'd love to hear her side of things.

I think your aibu should be about how to have a better relationship with her going forward, not about criticising her life choices.

OP was in London. Some areas in London have really crap secondary schools. DC is at an excellent primary, but the local secondaries are pretty rough. The nearest good state school to us is Catholic, and we're not. A lot of the parents are discussing either moving out of London, or paying for a tutor to get their kids through the 11 plus.

You cant do that when you have two kids and you chose to send them to a specialist school.

I don’t think you can conclude that she’s “failed to launch” until she’s at least 30. The girl is 22! And in France!

I think this is a cultural difference as well as guilt about not being around as a daily presence for her teens.

Ask your son to have a serious chat with his father to tell him of his fears and observations of his sister.. You also write your ex a letter. Suggest that DD should only be supported if she is studying at least half time and working one day per week.
Tell him that he has enabled her to become a heavy drinker and a non educated lay about.. Her music should be fun but realistically, it is a hobby and the kids need to learn skills and a work ethic too.

She's not going to make money with the band and ultimately will need to find an actual job somewhere. Maybe she'll be serving me my coffee soon?

She is 19 by the sounds of it you have had very little involvement in her upbringing so I think getting involved now is too late. I know you are getting a hard time on here but I have no idea why you and your ex thought splitting the siblings up and rearing them separately would be a good thing? I doubt they have much of a relationship either? What is the real reason you moved from London? because there are plenty of secondary schools in London so I find it highly unlikely it was just for that. Your ex over indulged and spoilt her daughter that is obvious but really he is the only one who has stuck with her and been a constant in her life and you are the only one who has done that for your son. It is quite a messed up family dynamic tbh and will have had a negative impact on both children. You and your son are both judging her and her choices and she will know that. I feel sorry for her

Interested to know what you got out of that comment? Do you think people, who work in the service industry, are below you?

Seriously? Ops golden child whom she fractured the family for, should start pontificating to his father and sibling how concerned he and ‘d’m are for her?!
why now? Why not when she was 8 and they buggered off for his demands? Happy to leave her then weren’t they?
although as pp say, wonder how he found this school as the only one he could attend soo far away? Did op then just happen across new partner in same area?…
9 years is a speedy… separation, divorce, meet new guy, marry have 2 kids!🤨

Doesn't sound like a good childhood to me. Dad had totally ruined her and now let's her drink, smoke and doss around all day while he pays for it. He sounds like a bell end who doesn't want his DD to grow up.
I'm really shocked by the amount of people who think her lifestyle is acceptable. I bet they wouldn't be saying the same if it was their child living like this.
I don't think the older son was telling tales. More likely he's shocked and worried about his sister. Sharing concerns about a close family member isn't telling tales. They're not 5!

this.

Sounds like mistakes were made all round from both parents in various ways from what I'm reading.
Your ex did her no favours with excessive spoiling and throwing money at her, no wonder shr prefers him.
She's an adult now and needs to make her own way in life but comes across as a bit immature still.
You can leave the door open for her and let her know you are there for her if she needs you in the future.

What the hell! So the dad who has raised her pretty much single handedly since she was 8 should get a bollocking from his ex wife who left her DD and the brother because his 19 year old dropped out of uni a few months ago and is now trying to pursue her dream. She's hardly Sid Viscious shooting up heroin and sleeping on park benches. She's in a band, doing gigs, practising their craft. Yes, she might drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes but a lot of teens and young adults do, heck even old adults. She's young enough and with a supportive enough dad that she can afford to take a bit of time out and see how it goes. It's basically like being on a gap year but rather than travelling she is doing what she loves, music.

You can’t abandon a child and then moan that they weren’t parented the way you want them to be parented.

If you want YOUR child to be raised a certain way, then it’s on YOU to be in their life enough to do that.

You had all the signs during the teen years that she wasn’t turning out the way you wanted, that was the time to step up and spend more time with her, not less, if you wanted any influence.

You prioritised your new partner and your new children over your existing child and now she’s taken a different path to the one you would have chosen; you weren’t around to guide her to the path you wanted, so that’s on you.

And that’s not to say that your path is any better or worse than the one her active parent has laid down for her; when you stopped participating in her life in a meaningful way, you stopped having any influence.

The easiest thing for you to do was to step back, let the other parent do the lion’s share of raising your DD and then moan about the result. Surely you must see how ridiculous that is.

If you want a job doing a particular way, do it yourself. Or alternatively, be around enough in a positive way that the person actually doing the job is influenced by your presence and preferences.

I think you need to meet her where she is now. stop
rehashing the past, stop encouraging your son to tell tales on her and show some interest in her relationships and music ambition. The best thing you can do is to be present in her life so she can come to you if it does all fall apart. Maybe it won’t! Maybe she’ll make a career out of the music or it will show her another creative option. Maybe she and her boyfriend will be together for decades and you’ll regret not getting to know him now. Either way if you approach it with judgement and endless history lessons about iPhones a decade ago you won’t get any closer and another decade of having a strained relationship will go past.