I think my DD is wasting her life away and Ex is enabling it

[Bigorangeballoons]

This could be a little complex so I’ll give some background first.
I have 4 DC, 2 with my ex husband. My 2 eldest with my ex are 22 and 19. We divorced when they were 6 and 9. My Ex is French and we lived in London, both of our children attended a French language school. For 2 years we both lived local to the school but the area was very expensive. DS decided at 11 he wanted to go to a “normal school”. Stupidly my ex and I agreed DD would live with him as the primary parent and I would move further out for DS to go to secondary school. I then had 2 more children. DD continued living with her dad and going to French school. Upon reflection I should never have left DD with her dad, at first I had her every weekend then by the time she was 11/12 every other weekend and she spent most of it at her hobbies. Ex spoiled her rotten, she was his little princess. He never really spoiled DS the same and they have a very strained relationship as a result while DS and I are very close. Ex bought DD the newest iPhone at 11, upgraded it often, she had a MacBook at 12, let her spend stupid amounts of money on clothes, took her to loads of gigs, took her on trips alone (snowboarding mostly as DS never enjoyed snow sports), paid for all her hobbies. Apparently she was golden for her dad, never misbehaved etc. But with me she was a nightmare, she’d get so stroppy, ignored curfews, constantly shouted at my now husband that he isn’t her dad and he shouldn’t even talk to her as a result. Punishment rarely worked as by Sunday night she was back at her dads and being spoiled again.
When she was 16, my ex told me he was moving back to France and wanted to take DD with him. I didn’t want this to happen but eventually I gave in and let her move with him, mainly as I felt if I said no she would be horrific to live with and view me as the reason and it would break our already tense relationship entirely.

She is a clever girl, did really well in school, settled down with her behaviour a lot after moving when she would come back to visit. She started university in France in the autumn but dropped out. Her dad now pays for a flat which she shares with her 22 year old boyfriend. She doesn’t work, doesn’t study, she is in a band, who write their own music and do play some very small gigs but it’s not making money. She messages me and I have tried to visit her alone without my husband or other children but the last 2 times I’ve done this once in the summer I got all the way there and only met up with her for a meal one night, she was busy or ‘ill’ the other 2 days. Then just before Christmas she again met up with me to trade presents but only for dinner one night, apparently again too busy to see me on the other days.

My older son went to see her and their dad over the weekend and today when he got home he told me her life is “a mess”. Apparently she is smoking loads, drinking loads, spends her days just messing about and has no plans to go back to uni. Her dad is paying her rent, he gives her an allowance to buy whatever she wants etc. Apparently her dad fully supports her and her “boyfriend and band mates” and they are all just following the creative process!

I have no idea what to do, her dad won’t talk to me and I have a feeling anything I said to DD would be ignored. I feel like I messed up by ever letting her live with her dad full time as he is clearly an incompetent parent.

AIBU to feel I have failed her? What do I do? Is there even anything I can do?

What you can do at the moment is stay constant, offer a place of love and safety free of judgement

well that’s always a first for the op!

It’s tough at that age. DD is a bit older and still finding her way, although does work p:t. She’s chosen a hard career path, as in tough to get in to, but I try not to fund her as much as feasibly possible (she lives at home currently) because it’s too easy just to rely on bank of mum and dad.
Your DD’s story is different as her dad is the main parent and you haven’t got much of a leg to stand on with how she’s living currently. I’d just keep communicating with her and no demands. I don’t agree anyone should buy:fund a flat for a 22 year old though esp if they’re not working. I’d be happy to help DC buy though if they were in gainful employment.
You may have made the wrong decision in hindsight but all you can do now is rebuild the relationship.

People are really missing that this young woman is 19, not 22, and that she only dropped out of uni a few months ago.

It makes a huge difference to how people are understanding the situation, because a 22 year old bumming around being unemployed for several years is very different to a 19 year old finding her feet for a few months. And she’s even doing something creative with the time and getting gigs!

If she were doing her smoking and drinking on a ski season or while backpacking around Thailand for a few months on a gap year I doubt anyone would say she was wasting her life. What’s wrong with spending a few months having fun when you’re that age?

She’ll probably look back fondly on her years trying to ‘make it’ as a musician when she is 43 and working a 9-5.

she is in a band, who write their own music and do play some very small gigs but it’s not making money.

So she does have a job.

Plenty of people have small businesses that don't make money for a while. Would you class them as not working? She's trying something, maybe it'll work out, maybe it won't. If it doesn't, she can try something else.

She may not be doing what you'd want for her, but she certainly doesn't sound like she's wasting her life.

To add, I was vaguely friends with some guys at school who didn’t go to uni afterwards, and who spent a couple of years bumming around a crappy houseshare drinking, smoking weed and jamming on their various instruments.

They’re now a very famous band and are all multi millionaires.

I have a friend who always loved music. She was privately educated and dropped out of a law degree to pursue music. I thought she’d mess around with it for a bit and then go back to law, as I didn’t think her voice was strong enough or her songs memorable enough to make it. Her name is Dido…

Ha ha love this! I saw her live at uni, so maybe 2001ish. She had a beautiful clear, calming voice even in large live setting.

Oh you’re right! She’s SO young. Just let her be! Of course her dad is subsidising rent - he’s not going to see a teenager out on the streets is he?

I have to say I’m delighted by the support for her on this thread. I have one child who is unlikely to be a top academic performer but is extremely creative and I imagine she will pursue a career in the arts. I shall make sure she has every support!

Not everything is about ticking the right boxes - uni, house etc.

People running small businesses tend to have a goal making a decent living out of it. Most businesses fail anyway so wouldn't be encouraging any DC to set up a business until they've actually worked in an industry for a few years and have skills and industry knowledge. This band is not going to make any money. I know people who have a FT job and do band PT for fun. They don't expect to make a living out of it.

What "else" can she just "try"? She doesn't seem to have work ethic, any goal or any realms of improving herself. What skilled high paying jobs can she just get without working towards actually achieving something. When my DC was 19 they were reading economics at a top tier university.

She'll probably regret the low salary she'll be on

I studied hard, went to uni without a gap year and have a masters and a PhD and I’m still on a low salary because I am doing my dream job. Zero regrets here.

I think she is 19 ? Her brother and boyfriend both 22 ?
OP she is really young and eventually either the band will be a success or she will get bored, split up with her boyfriend, decide to go back to university or training. 19 is tricky, legally an adult but very few 19 year olds are adults in terms of behaviour and judgement.
You made a decision that seemed the best one at the time, as we all do, and although with hindsight you feel it was a mistake, you can only live in the now and try and form a good adult bond with your daughter. Have you talked to her about your regrets ? I think both your children probably feel the favourite of one parent and rejected by the other, so doing all you can now to address this imbalance might be the way forward. It’s not good for children to be a favourite, it’s damaging to relationships, and it does sound as though your ex favours his daughter over his son and has acted as though he is the parent of an only child.
I would ride out what you feel are bad choices of hers by being as supportive and enthusiastic as you can (even if you are tearing your hair out in private) and keeping up with communication.

Her dad wasn't and isn't an incompetent parent. She's exploring young adulthood and yes, that can involve a time away from university and trying to live her dream. He's supporting her financially so she's got a roof over her head and food to eat through this time. She's doing something creative and frankly, being in a band is also hard work.

You chose to let her go. You facilitated the wants of your 11 year old son and dumped your 8 year old daughter on your then husband who raised her as a single parent while you went on to have a second family and she's left out of that through your choices. It sounds like you want to see her as a failure at 22 so you can tell your ex he's a bad parent. That's pretty nasty but you're coming off Judgey bitch here when your own choices are so problematic.

That's the choice you made. We as a family both went to uni, have stem master's and are now an additional rate tax paying household. I have musical DC and one studying for her grade 8.

All my DC have and have had active social lifes. But they know that work comes first and to play hard you gotta work hard to achieve things. They've all had goals in life and set out to achieve things. Not been wishy washy let's just drink and smoke everyday.

Firstly, as she is only 19, she has plenty of time to go back to university and get a degree if she wants to, and there is no reason why taking time out to have fun at 19 prevents you from earning a decent salary later in life.

Secondly, a high salary isn’t everyone’s goal in life. Maybe that’s what makes you and your family tick, if you like money and property and buying things. But not everyone feels that way, and that’s fine. Not everyone sees the world through your eyes.

I have a first class degree from an excellent university. I don’t earn a high salary because I haven’t chosen to take that kind of path. I could have applied for numerous promotions over the years or chosen a more lucrative field in which to specialise, but I didn’t because the thought of having to live my life in that kind of career frankly makes me want to die inside. My ambitions in are entirely different and don’t have anything to do with work.

If you really can’t see that not everyone wants to be like you or your children, you must be seriously lacking in imagination.

Life would be very dull indeed if we all followed the same path, knuckled down to achieve stem degrees, grade 8 exams and buying things. I know who I would rather hang out with! The Dd!

I think “work comes first” is a bit of a simplistic attitude for most people.

I’m in a sector where I could earn at least treble with a different employer, but that would come with very high stress, no work-life balance and no time to do things I enjoy.

There is a happy medium, which is what I am happy with.

Lol

I can’t imagine leaving one child behind, and then going on to have two more! Sadly you did leave her and have no significant role or say in her life.

My point was that you can’t declare the daughter will be on a low salary in her 40s based on her having taken a few months out aged 19. Plenty of people who didn’t go to uni earn more than I do with my PhD.

What you’re calling ‘wishy washy drinking and smoking all day’ might be the beginnings of a lucrative career as a musician or songwriter. Or she might go to law school in a few years and become a high earning lawyer. Or she might crash out entirely and live on the dole for the rest of her life. None of us can say based on a tiny snapshot of a few months.

It also sounds like OP’s DD did well academically at school and pursued various hobbies including sport and, I’d guess, music of some sort. I don’t know how old your kids are but if they aren’t even uni aged yet then I don’t know how you can so confidently predict what they will or won’t choose to do at 19.

19 year old, not 22.

@Bigorangeballoons , you sound hateful about your own daughter. Look to how your own choices contributed to your feelings about her. You resent her because you failed her as a parent.

I bet she'll be as fine as she can be. Her dad sounds good and involved, unlike you. You're a day late and a dollar short.

@Jendsn When my DC was 19 they were reading economics at a top tier university.
oh well Jen.. you can still be proud, sounds like they tried their best…

Just as a counter point.

It was her ex who moved op’s dd out of the country, something the op did not want.

Are you saying that no one is allowed to re-marry and have dc and move on with their life having been divorced from an arsehole who won’t communicate properly over the care of his dc and favours one child over another?

Also, it’s very strange how you and other pps equate being spoiled and over-indulged financially and alienated from your other parent as “a good childhood”! I would hate to see what a bad childhood looks like in that case!

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Op, ignore the nasty assumptions on here.
I totally understand why you feel so upset and the gamut of emotions that you must have felt while visiting your YA dd in France. Try not to beat yourself up too much. You made what you thought were the best decisions in a difficult situation at the time. And your ex does not sound reasonable or cooperative.

I think you sound like a good mother who did what she thought was best for her dc at the time. You wouldn’t be posting on here if you weren’t genuinely caring 💐💐💐

The point is, you went to France , you tried, and that’s all you can do. Don’t stop going there and showing up and having chats, however brief. Keep showing up. It’s good your dd is in a band. It’s perfectly normal for her to be rather selfishly focused on her own life right now. As others have pointed out, many youngsters are rebelling a bit at this age whether they have family difficulties or not.

Now is not the time to give her advice. She is is intelligent and hopefully she will work it out. Keep the lines of communication clear. Visit and keep sending cards and letters. It’s a good sign that she is sending you messages.

Parenthood is a long marathon op! You need to play the long game. There will be a times in the future when your dd will need her mum.

I know you are desperately worried about your dd but let her have this time to decompress. Life is very changeable at that age. She may go back to uni or return to uk to do so. Just let her know that you are there for her whatever she decides, and that you love her and you think she is an intelligent person and you trust that she will make sensible decisions about her own life (even if you don’t think that right at this moment). You might slip in the very occasional comment about how you have found it useful to be financially independent. But generally keep away from criticising. Just encourage and remind her that the world is her oyster.

Some people have no idea what force and negative influence an irresponsible ex can wield over an adolescent girl desperate for their love and attention.

Your dd will grow up and may have one or two difficult relationships herself. She will come to understand that it wasn’t right how her father ignored his brother. And how he could be difficult. And how he conducted his relationship with you regarding the dc. She may still be taking his money, but trust me, I bet she is already starting to realise.

I can see how it was flattering to your ex to have an adoring dd by his side. Really despicable that he didn’t seem bothered by your son who he may be challenged by? Your ex has opted for the easy way out every time hasn’t he? And you are left to pick up the pieces.

Try not to worry op, give it time, things will come right, she’s not necessarily wasting her life, she is exploring it, or taking a pause from it, be patient 💐

Oh noooo, her father bought her things, they went to a lot of gigs together, traveled together, and he paid for her hobbies, what an absolute bastard he was! Not like the Saint Mummy, who dumped her at 8 for another child's secondary school (the stupidest excuse I've ever heard) and went on to have two more with another man.

And a 22-year-old gigging, clubbing, smoking, partying. Well, I never. Who does that? That's so unheard of!

Leave her alone and stop preaching, if you want to see her again. You have no right. I'd cut you off altogether if I were her. You're hardly a mother of the century anyway, dumping your kid, begrudging her things and traveling.

If you'd described the younger me as "utterly failed to launch", I'd have had some serious problems with you. How nasty. I launched just fine, maybe better than most as I had the benefit of making career/study decisions as a more experienced adult.

Maybe I did describe you, and was wise enough not to do it to your face knowing that you lacked the maturity and insight to take it on board.

Also, you having “some serious problems” with me would have absolutely no influence on me, other than perhaps cementing a view that you were a rather self centered yet brittle young woman, who reacted defensively and angrily when someone had an opinion you didn’t like.

It is one thing to take one’s time in choosing a life path, it is really quite another to do it whilst having one’s hand in Daddy’s pocket. This thread isn’t actually about you and your Band Years, so there is no need to let us know who paid for it in your specific case, no one actually cares.