I think my DD is wasting her life away and Ex is enabling it

[Bigorangeballoons]

This could be a little complex so I’ll give some background first.
I have 4 DC, 2 with my ex husband. My 2 eldest with my ex are 22 and 19. We divorced when they were 6 and 9. My Ex is French and we lived in London, both of our children attended a French language school. For 2 years we both lived local to the school but the area was very expensive. DS decided at 11 he wanted to go to a “normal school”. Stupidly my ex and I agreed DD would live with him as the primary parent and I would move further out for DS to go to secondary school. I then had 2 more children. DD continued living with her dad and going to French school. Upon reflection I should never have left DD with her dad, at first I had her every weekend then by the time she was 11/12 every other weekend and she spent most of it at her hobbies. Ex spoiled her rotten, she was his little princess. He never really spoiled DS the same and they have a very strained relationship as a result while DS and I are very close. Ex bought DD the newest iPhone at 11, upgraded it often, she had a MacBook at 12, let her spend stupid amounts of money on clothes, took her to loads of gigs, took her on trips alone (snowboarding mostly as DS never enjoyed snow sports), paid for all her hobbies. Apparently she was golden for her dad, never misbehaved etc. But with me she was a nightmare, she’d get so stroppy, ignored curfews, constantly shouted at my now husband that he isn’t her dad and he shouldn’t even talk to her as a result. Punishment rarely worked as by Sunday night she was back at her dads and being spoiled again.
When she was 16, my ex told me he was moving back to France and wanted to take DD with him. I didn’t want this to happen but eventually I gave in and let her move with him, mainly as I felt if I said no she would be horrific to live with and view me as the reason and it would break our already tense relationship entirely.

She is a clever girl, did really well in school, settled down with her behaviour a lot after moving when she would come back to visit. She started university in France in the autumn but dropped out. Her dad now pays for a flat which she shares with her 22 year old boyfriend. She doesn’t work, doesn’t study, she is in a band, who write their own music and do play some very small gigs but it’s not making money. She messages me and I have tried to visit her alone without my husband or other children but the last 2 times I’ve done this once in the summer I got all the way there and only met up with her for a meal one night, she was busy or ‘ill’ the other 2 days. Then just before Christmas she again met up with me to trade presents but only for dinner one night, apparently again too busy to see me on the other days.

My older son went to see her and their dad over the weekend and today when he got home he told me her life is “a mess”. Apparently she is smoking loads, drinking loads, spends her days just messing about and has no plans to go back to uni. Her dad is paying her rent, he gives her an allowance to buy whatever she wants etc. Apparently her dad fully supports her and her “boyfriend and band mates” and they are all just following the creative process!

I have no idea what to do, her dad won’t talk to me and I have a feeling anything I said to DD would be ignored. I feel like I messed up by ever letting her live with her dad full time as he is clearly an incompetent parent.

AIBU to feel I have failed her? What do I do? Is there even anything I can do?

Ex bought DD the newest iPhone at 11, upgraded it often, she had a MacBook at 12, let her spend stupid amounts of money on clothes, took her to loads of gigs, took her on trips alone (snowboarding mostly as DS never enjoyed snow sports), paid for all her hobbies
This list doesn't sound so terrible? Why wouldn't a parent pay for their dc's hobbies? Or gigs, if they both enjoy them and live in London? A MacBook would be useful for schoolwork. It doesn't sound like money is an issue for the dad, is that part of the complaint?

You realise that 'struggling artists' generally...struggle? They're working as well as creating and often that struggle is what drives their success. They're not on a free ride from a parent where, whether they make it as an artist or not is largely irrelevant because they know the rent is paid regardless.

Exactly.

And why the snootiness about being a creative? She’s only 19. Friend of a friends Dd similar age trying to make it as a singer everyone’s impressed and rooting for her.

My own same age Dd is at uni studying a serious degree but doing a hell of a lot of partying too. This 19 year old is doing the partying bit then the music instead of the study.

I'd just focus on building an adult relationship with her.
Have you ever apologized for moving away from her? That must have hurt her deeply even if she pretended she was fine.
And then you went and had more children. So I can see why as a teen she didn't want to go to yours. I split with my childrens dad and it was clear to me that it would be unfair to my current children to have any more. I needed to put them first

So- apologise, stay in touch, show support, and wait till she asks you for advice before giving any

She might have the last laugh in the AI world anyway

Agree, clothes hobbies, computer. Phone and holidays - all a normal part of childhood.

You sound disturbingly critical and sneery about your own Dd. Guess it’s tied up in your disapproval of the ex and you now link the two. It sounds horribly messed up. You really can’t come in at this late stage and criticise you are really in no position to do so.

Tbf you did kind of abandon her. Ds could have gone to a normal school near where the French school was.

There were bound to be some abandonment issues there as she might see you as favouring ds. Who knows whether exdh’s parenting style helped with this or made it worse.

It is what it is. Maybe she sees you as judgemental. You just need to concentrate on being a positive aspect to her life and bite your tongue if you want a relationship going forward. She is an adult and at the end of the day, her life is her business now.

Why did you move away in the first place? Regular schools everywhere you could have enrolledyour ds in. You hardly saw her growing up. Those crucial pre teen /early teen years that she would have needed a full time mum . Not 4 days a month . And those 4 days she had to cope with 2 other children and a stepdad. She knows she was pushed aside and it shows she is not very interested in a relationship with you.
Yes she is spoilt and its doing her no good. But you cant help her or do anything about it. She wont listen to you.

I would also do this. Get interested in what she’s interested. I’m also curious why you had to move house for your son to attend a secondary.

That's a massive generalisation. And a lot of artists would say the opposite - that it's the people with family money and connections who are more likely to make it big. Laura Marling, Sophie Ellis-Bextor, Chris Martin and Julian Casablancas (of the Strokes) seem to have done pretty well for themselves, despite their private education and privileged upbringing.

You can be driven even if you are not struggling. Creative people are usually not particularly driven by money, but by being able to do what they love. That's where the drive comes from.

Ex bought DD the newest iPhone at 11, upgraded it often, she had a MacBook at 12, let her spend stupid amounts of money on clothes, took her to loads of gigs, took her on trips alone (snowboarding mostly as DS never enjoyed snow sports), paid for all her hobbies

This sounds like an amazing childhood that many neglected or abused kids can only dream of having. The key factor here is that he spent money on shared experiences so it wasn't just to buy himself free time. Going snowboarding and to concerts with your dad sounds fantastic. I would not be surprised if she loves music and created a band as a direct result of spending time with her father at gigs.

You actually sound jealous that she was given all these things. The other brutal truth is that if her father clearly has the means to support her, what's wrong with her spending a few years enjoying her youth or just working part time? A lot of people here seem to assume the girl is a "loser" but that sort of lifestyle sounds incredibly common amongst privileged kids. Spending their 20s doing something not very productive, living with friends, travelling etc. Most end up doing just fine. She will probably receive or inherit a property at some point anyway.

You can be driven even if you are not struggling. Creative people are usually not particularly driven by money, but by being able to do what they love. That's where the drive comes from.

Yes this. It's weird how people love to sneer about someone trying to make in music, art or fashion as "struggling" and not doing much with their life, when in reality they are actually have a great time. Yes, a lot of those kids are from wealthy families and have their parents funding their life. But they still have great memories and unique memories compared to someone forced to join the rat race straight out of uni. Since her father clearly has a lot of money, she will most likely meet and marry someone wealthy and settle down at some point. That's the life trajectory of many "spoilt" girls. They don't end up on the streets but they're good at finding men to take care of them.

I was kind of looking at all this from her perspective as I read your op, and it did occur to me that you might look like the one who moved out with DS then got another family, while her dad stuck by her.

It is a little hard to tell what went on around the time of the family moving into two homes. Was it all about the school for DS and the marriage fell apart thereafter? Which she might blame you for. Or was the moving out part of the separation process anyway? I just feel a chunk of the narrative is missing there which might explain her feelings in being "ill" etc when you visit.

Ultimately op, parents make mistakes - even the ones who have more conventional stories. Children grow up and often rebel or waste time in early adulthood, even the ones who have more conventional stories. I think here the thing to be glad for is that she seems to have the support and love of your ex and you will just have to be ready to be there for her and see where she takes things from here.

ETA fwiw I don't actually think it is the fancy macbook or snowboarding holidays that have driven the problems here...

My mother left me when I was 4 yrs old to marry someone else She had intermettent contact as a young child and tried to disctate my choices as an adult

I have not seen or spoken to her for over 20 years. You have no right to dictate her choices now. I made many mistakes as a young person but evrything turned out OK I'm now 70 but the trauma of being abandoned has never gone away

This is sad and I understand your concern but you cannot parent and discipline a now adult child whose upbringing you didn't influence.

⬆️ this.
Clearly the relationship is very fractured.

This “failed to launch” phrase on here is very bizarre.

She did well enough at school to get into university. Presumably she will be able to get onto a course that’s better suited to her when the band doesn’t work out.

It’s not the end of the world.

You actually sound jealous that she was given all these things. The other brutal truth is that if her father clearly has the means to support her, what's wrong with her spending a few years enjoying her youth or just working part time?

actually I think this is it, nothing from
op about missing her dd, sad she didn’t get to see her grow up… it’s all very childish “why did she get all that?!” Wonder if there was much household finance disparity and op is just jealous that she couldn’t provide all this so dd shouldn’t get if ds doesn’t?

Writing her off as “failure to launch” at 22 is ridiculous. Plenty of people don’t go to uni straight from school and even fuck around a bit and turn out fine later.

And even if she doesn’t change, why is “failure to launch” an issue here? Usually it’s an issue because it’s impacting either the child or the parents negatively. The child is miserable with their circumstances, can’t afford to live nicely, lacks social skills and/or friends and activities. The parents can’t afford to support them financially without suffering themselves, or can afford it but doesn’t want to. Or the child has to stay in the family home causing issues for everyone.

None of that applies here. So why is it an issue that she’s “failed to launch”, when none of the people directly involved have an issue with it? It’s not even that she lacks ambition, as she has a band she wants to succeed with, it’s just not an ambition people on here approve of.

@OrdinarySloth even worse, she's only 19 and she dropped out of uni just a few months ago.

Your daughter was 8 years old when her mum moved away with her older brother and went on to have two more kids. And you blame her lashing out as a teen on… her dad buying her MacBooks?

I am never normally harsh on here but as someone whose mum left when I was a teen this has really touched a nerve with me.

I failed out of Uni at 19 after a disastrous series of events. I ended up moving from my mum's to my dad's house. He supported me while I figured things out and a few years later I was back at University and now live a very unremarkable life in the suburbs as a mid-manager with a husband and 2 kids. There's no need to be super focussed at 19 - plenty of time and it sounds like she's having a fabulous time and her father isn't worried about her. He genuinely knows her best so I would really encourage you to back up and try to engage with her as an adult - you aren't in a position to parent her like you would have at 10/12/14 if you'd been around anyway.

Of course her life is a mess. Your ex was her main parent. He has taken every shortcut in the book for an easy life for him. That coupled with there being plenty of money to facilitate this means neither he nor your daughter had to make difficult choices. The effects of this are now very apparent but both ex and daughter will never admit it.
his short-term attitude gave him instant gratification. He had no consequences to deal with as he just let her do what she wanted. She has never had to deal with hard choices as she’s always had her own way and a source of income via her dad.
her character is formed. Nothing you can change. I don’t think she will grow up unless your husband does first and it’s a bit late for that. She is also more susceptible to addiction as she has absolutely no idea of consequences as she’s never had to face them. If life ever got tough she would look to addictions to make her feel better rather than face reality.
She’s entitled to the point that she thinks it’s her dads responsibility to make sure she has the basics in life. What are the plans for when the money runs out? A rich husband? You?
Her maturity levels look like they are set. If there’s any ADHD in the family then it’s likely she has severe executive functioning issues. That won’t change at the age of 22.

you are simply an inconvenience as you represent responsibility. Her lack of emotion and love towards you is also a common trait in entities people. You don’t serve her needs so she has no desire to see you. If she did she’d make an effort. Her dad has made a little narcissistic daughter that you’d struggle to undo at 22 years of age. Money being cut-off or a life event like unplanned pregnancy might shock her into starting a meaningful relationship with you but at the moment she has no need for one.

i presume your ex husband is just as disinterested in talking to you as your daughter is. He won’t want to face the consequences of his poor parenting and will want to try and justify it. (If he’s even aware of the influence he has had on creating someone so self-absorbed and lazy). He is dysfunctional and he has created an enmeshed dysfunctional little co-dependent relationship with this daughter. He won’t accept anyone trying to change that - it’s his safe place.

Jealousy?
Has it occurred to you that maybe OPs DS has values and priorities, which differ from all day drink-smoke-do nothing life?