To not sit with dying parent? May be upsetting.

[lurchersforever]

My dad is dying - under palliative team and on morphine. This has been fairly unexpected but he is mid 70s and a heavy drinker and smoker, so not a complete shock at this point that this is happening. He has no specific diagnosis, such as cancer or heart issues, just a number of things have finally caught up with him I suppose.

I am low contact with both parents, especially him, and see them 2-3 times a year for a brief visit. I speak to my mum weekly but never my dad. I think they are dysfunctional and my mum has covered up or played down a lot of health and other issues over the years, but I haven't exactly pushed for info so can't blame her. I do think she's co-dependent.

I was tearful when the hospital rang me (think my mum had asked them to) but I'm at peace with what is happening now and, if I'm honest, relieved it isn't my mum going first. The thing is, I live a 3 hour drive away from them and have a teen at home - with their dad now but should be back with me tomorrow. I also have pets at home - teen has been back to the house to feed them this weekend (I came down yesterday) but if teen stays at dad's if I stay here after tomorrow it will be a pita for them to be going back and fore to mine while also going to college - no buses go those ways and teen is 16 (doesn't have a bike). Could stay at mine but think dad would question it as he knows what's happened - would be odd teen choosing to stay at mine when I'm not there.

Then there is the fact that I can't cope with my mum's house. It's filthy and stinks of smoke even though she doesn't some and my dad has been in hospital 3 weeks. God knows where I would sleep - it's 3 beds but I just don't want to get into any of them! And I really don't want to shower there either. I know it sounds harsh but it's the truth. It's how it was growing up too and is one of the reasons I'm low contact. At the moment dad isn't in a private room so I couldn't stay in the hospital all night anyway, but, despite not really wanting to be there at the moment of his death, I actually think I would prefer to be there than at the house. But he's on the ward and they say he's a priority to move but obviously can't say when a room will be available.

Then another thing is my mum is not even at the hospital for more than a couple of hours a day. It's a bit odd really. I'm here on my own with my dad when my mum is actually close to him and I'm not. I'm not even sure why I am here - we weren't close and he's not conscious - did seem to acknowledge when I arrived yesterday, which I'm glad about, but they then upped the morphine and he's been out of it since. I'm not sure why I'm here but I can't just go home and pretend it's not happening. I had pretty much decided if he gets into a private room I will stay there, hoping (that sounds wrong and I really don't mean to be crass) that it won't be much past the weekend. I know I will have to stay with my mum a night or two afterwards, which I am dreading...

If he's not in a private room within a couple of hours then I am going home and will plan to come back by tomorrow lunchtime, but that will mean he'll be alone until around 10.30am, which is when my mum comes. If he passes between those times he will do so alone. Is that awful?

Your choice but tbf really can’t be annoyed when folk diagnose others. They likely tried their best (and failed like us all in many respects). You’ve justified in your narrative the reasons you are not really that bothered, will do when it comes to it the absolute bare minimum and also that you hope he will not inconvenience you for more than a week. He’s the one dying so not really about you.

I'm sorry you are in this situation. My Dad passed recently while in palliative care and we stayed with him at this stage (though our relationship was different to what you describe). He was also on a morphine driver. While he appeared unconscious towards the end he was still responsive to us being there and to music (squeezed hands). It was evident in his face when he was in pain or agitated so we were able to call the nurse to relieve that for him. He didn't last long after appearing unconscious but I do believe he was aware of our presence and he could hear us and the music. There is no right or wrong in these situations. Please do whatever feels right for you and your circumstances. Wishing your Dad a peaceful passing and sending you strength for the days ahead xx

This. No one at work will think badly of you. They will assume that other family members are taking turns to visit and that’s fine, you don’t have to give any details.

Usually people are tactful and will respect that it s a difficult time for you. If most of your colleagues are in their 40s and older, they will have been in a similar situation with a parent or GP.

I agree with those who say don’t stay in your mother’s house, get a cheap hotel or air BnB . I prefer air BnB as it’s easier and less stressful to buy in food and cook than deal with hotel meals. Especially of you are coming and going at odd times of the day and night .

Hello OP, sorry to hear of your dad.

I feel death and how to deal with it is very personal. I had an amazing relationship with my dad and me and my mum stayed 8 days, 24 hours a day when he was end of life. We were both with him when he died as well as his brother. He was an anxious man and I feel he would have felt frightened at the prospect of dying alone. You have said you don’t think that’s the case with your dad. You have to do what is right for you. Sounds like the relationship wasn’t amazing anyway and as other posters have said. You could stay with him for days and then leave to get a coffee and he could died. I’m also medical so that helped with identifying signs death was imminent and allowed to to wake my mum who was sleeping for a couple of hours in an adjoining room (he was in his care home) and ring his brother to come back in (who had left for a shower). More recently my nan whom I was also very close to passed, I also stayed at her bedside for 3 days solid, I then left as this time there was no facilities for sleep and I felt truely unwell unsure if just sleep deprivation, and was also honestly a bit traumatised from the EOL process for my dad (also reasonably recent), I had only left for 20 minutes and as I pulled onto my drive my mum called to say Nan had passed. I had planned to return in a couple of hours after some sleep. So you can’t also judge it either. I didn’t see the imminent signs as with my dad. Do what is right for you, the process is very complex and arguably even more so when the relationship was poor. You don’t owe him any more because he is dying, even if your heart may tell you otherwise. If you don’t stay, don’t tell work. Just spend some time at home doing what you wouldn’t normally be able, if that’s a long lay in, reading a book all day on the sofa then so be it.

Be gentle with yourself. ❤️

From my experience with both parents, it could be two days or two weeks. I'd check into a Premier Inn nearby and ask the hospital to call you if anything changes. Book a night at a time.

I was there when both my parents died (also had very difficult relationships with them both) and, if I'm totally honest, it didn't matter once they were sedated. It was "for me", not them. If they'd been in hospital (both wanted to be at home) I would have left overnight each night.

Not awful at all, I would not judge you for going home. I suppose my question to myself would be whether I would come to regret my decision to leave. I was there when my Dad died, but only by chance, a few hours later and I wouldn't have been. You were low contact with your Dad for your own good reasons, and despite this you have still made an effort to spend time with him. There are often obituaries which state that someone died surrounded by their family, but others say that other people 'wait' until they are alone to die. If prioritizing your children is what you feel is right then do that. Its seems your Dad didn't for whatever reason prioritize you .

I am sorry OP - the hardest situation. I have been with DGM, DM and DF - our relationships different from those you describe. I want to say regarding work - they sound great and please let them be! Do you have any flexibility to wfh at all? For DM I had to fly half-way across the world on a weekend and had to message work. They were terrific. As to whether you go to to the hospital. You. have and if that feels ok then that's ok. Please do what feels right for you and I will be thinking of you and your family. Wishing you all peace and strength x

For any medical staff on here. I assume you tell all relatives not present it was peaceful? I doubt you’d actually tell relatives the truth of what death can often be like?

This is what I would do. It is what I and my siblings did when my dad died

I'm an ex care assistant and I've been there for so many deaths. I can't think of one where the resident had passed away with a family member there. Many of them had family members sit with them for 95% of the day and night, but they would always wait until they was on their own to pass. I know it sounds really strange but I don't think they want their loved ones to see it.

If you were to try and be there you could almost guarantee he would pass when you just "popped out" and you would guilt yourself.

Please be kind to yourself, you have said good bye and he knows you've been there for him.

It’s your choice, no one else can decide for you, just don’t do something that you end up regretting later on

I know people who sat and watched their parents and grandparents dying. They find it difficult to remember them when they were up and about.

My DF said goodbye to his DM when he knew she had days to go. I don't think he could visit her later on. His sister and g-niece were there all the time

Say goodbye to him, tell your Mum you're going and go. It's then up to her if she sits with him or not.

OP, just do what is right for you: you have your DC, and you live quite a distance away. The hell with what anyone else thinks. I’m a nurse, and have looked after many patients in your dad’s situation. Some families stay 24/7, some don’t (or can’t). We don’t judge, every family is different and we tell families that they need to figure/do what is right for them, and not what society thinks. There often lots of complex histories and situations. x

Don't you think the dm could do with support and company?

My dad died in the few moments no 0ne was there. I was glad tbh.
My dfil who was adored didn't want a bedside vigil. My dh spent a lovely day with him chatting about their shared hobby. He went home and he died overnight.
At the minimum I would book a hotel. But just go home if you want to. Agree with pps it could go on longer than you think x

It is your choice of course. But when my dad had a heart attack. I found on just as I got on a flight from Dubai to London. The second I landed, I booked an additional 8 hour flight to go see my dad. He was not dying this time and I had kids after 1 and 3 at the time. And then a few years later I got the call he was in hospital sick again. I decided to go home as it did not sound great....no confirmation he was dying....just not well. Once I got there I realised it was serious. My sister jumped on a 12 hour flight. We both had young kids. We still went home. We sat w our dad those last few days and held his hands as he passed.

You find a way to be there. Unless you have an absolute terrible relationship. No one is perfect. My sister had a difficult relationship w our dad, but she still showed up. Our dad was not perfect. He was a functional alcoholic. But he did the best he could. I am glad I was there. Not just for my dad, but to support my mom as well going through this difficult time.

You can tell work: you can't just sit anymore you have to be doing something/ you want to save the compassionate leave for later / you can't settle till you've got work in order etc - if you feel able to work give it a try. You may find you you can't but that's useful knowledge.

The hospital may have hotel style accommodation you can stay in / deals with local hotels for cheap rooms. You could tell your mum you're doing that so as to not impose on her.

There's a decent chat of your mum going downhill shortly afterwards - if they worked as a couple in their own way for a long time that suddenly changing will be tricky. You can reasonably talk to the hospital staff about your mum's need for bereavement support / ask for chaplaincy support whilst being clear you're not local and not able to provide much help. If you think she's living in objectively unsanitary conditions consider contacting social services / the fire brigade (for hoarding).

That's also a point - the hospital chaplaincy service / volunteer service may have people who sit with dying people in hospital.

Your 16 year old is old enough to choose where to spend their time. Worth considering if it would help your teenager to see your dad - this might be their first encounter with grief (I am assuming at a distance, given your limited contact). And worth considering if they need your support more than your mum does.

I wasn’t with my mum when she passed last year. I’d seen her the day before with my eldest and would have gone that day with my youngest (eldest doing a levels and youngest doing GCSEs at the time but it was the weekend) but was phoned to tell me in the evening. She was in her care home. The last time I saw her I don’t think she was aware and she was so deaf that I doubt she could hear us. A couple of days earlier she’d told me off as I couldn’t do what she wanted me too, it was unsafe but she didn’t understand that. I’d been her carer for years until she moved to the care home for the last few months (and the care was excellent there), she’d made my life a misery in those years and I’d put a lot on hold to do this. I’m conflicted about not being there when she died but it was probably inevitable as the home wasn’t nearby and my kids needed my support too. I was there when it mattered, in her lifetime, though it cost me dear and, at times, it wasn’t the easiest relationship. In her way, she did her best and so did I.

Op - only you can make that decision. It doesn’t matter what others think. As with all things, everyone has an opinion. I hope you and your mum and dad find peace at this difficult time.

DM's only there for a couple of hours each day. She doesn't seem to be massively bothered.

You've come up with a long list of rather flimsy reasons why you can't be there. It sounds more like you don't want to be there. If that's the case, own it. If you weren't close and don't feel the need to be there, you don't have to be. Do what feels right to you. Just be aware that this is a one-time event so you need to be comfortable with your choice. No judgement either way.

To be honest with a situation like this it likely will be. You have your traumatic deaths that stay with you years later and then ones like this where the patient is sedated, not struggling, they just slip away. Most inpatient deaths I would say are like this.

OP there is no right answer. We all have different relationships with our families and as long as you are at peace with your choice then no need to seek permission as it were. Plenty of folk however loved they are had nobody with them at the end.

@lurchersforever please look after yourself. Some people seem to wait until their loved ones are out of the room (loo break, coffee run, fresh air) before allowing themselves to die. You know you went to see him and say goodbye, so does he, so does your Mum. If that's all you have, then that's enough. Take care.

Which is what, exactly? Have you witnessed many deaths?

It's a really tough one. I don't have much contact with my parents but I wouldn't want them to die alone. I think I'd wan to be there at the end and make some sort of peace. I wouldn't want to live with the possibility that I'd feel any guilt after the event. Even when someone is unconscious, hearing is usually the last sense to go so I would want to be there to talk to them.