To be absolutely fed up with a 'friend' in our group

[FierceForester90]

This is long sorry, but needed for context.

I am friends with a group of wonderful ladies who have all known each other for 6 years now, We met through a shared love of hiking and try to go every couple of weekends and also have a couple of overnight trips through the year.

We have a Whatsapp group to plan stuff - a couple of years ago one of our friends brought her friend 'Susan' to a hike and invited her to the Whatsapp. Since then the original lady has stepped back from joining us, but Susan has remained with us.

She is unfortunately quite a rude and difficult lady. She can drive, but doesn't - a group of us car share but she never offers and assumes she can have a lift without asking.

In the earlier days she came on a weekend away, she borrowed kit from others that she has still not returned, did not drive or offer any fuel money, and insisted that two separate people in the group called her before the trip to go through the weekends plan in great detail (I was over an house on the phone). She talks non stop and often speaks over other people.

In more recent times she has asked one of the group for a lift to a hike, when the person she asked wasn't well enough to do it herself, suggesting that she 'stayed warm in the car' while she went out with others. Last week an outing was arranged an her response was 'I'll tag along with XXX" no please, no thank you, no 'do you mind?'

She demands photos are taken of her but never offers to return the favour. She has in the past messaged people away from the main group saying how disappointed she is if she sees anyone has been out without her.

Susan is currently injured, and yesterday a message went into the group chat about going out tomorrow. Her response was 'I'll come but I need a lift and help to get up and down things'. No please, no thank you, no w'would anyone be OK o help me'.

We are at a point where some people just won't post plans in the chat anymore because of her behaviour and lack of manners. I'd love to just remove her from the group but it feels mean.

AIBU to feel that her behaviour is awful and just be totally fed up with it?

This is a good way to tackle it. She's not being very considerate to anyone's feelings but everyone is falling over themselves to be considerate towards her feelings. What a rude, entitled madam.

'We don't think you're a good fit for our group, so we've chucked you out'.

That should do it.

This.
Of course she bloody knows what she is doing.
She knows ye are wet and hasn't an ounce of respect for up all, so she motors on while ye all wring your hands.

This 👆💯 🙃

Some people honestly cannot take a fucking hint. 🤦🏻‍♀️
Some people are oblivious and are then mortified when it is pointed out. 😨
Some people are just cheeky fuckers. 😆
It is not mean to be direct and honest.

But if you feel like it is sounding mean, then do what this poster said and just have a set of ground rules for everyone.on the whatsapp chat, that way everyone is accountable. 👍

If she STILL behaves like a twat... then bin her off and start a new group. 💃
@FierceForester90

Long ago, in the heady days before covid, we bought a house with a very solid barbecue built into the garden, so we started to hold barbecues every few weeks, mostly in the summer.

We invited the neighbours, obviously, and DH's friends from when he was at school and from his hobby and mine from the hobby I do, and it was fine for a while.

But then unfortunately one of his hobby friends started to be really rather offensive a lot of the time, with occasional vague threats of violence, and we discovered that two or three people we really did want to see were waiting until this person had replied to the group chat to tell us if they were attending or not before they decided to come (or not!) So my DH sent a private email telling his friend that this was what was happening (without naming names!) and asking them not to come any more – and the result, as I predicted, was that this person lashed out in a very unpleasant way, on the public chat, accusing DH of all sorts and in particular of being transphobic (which he absolutely is not, and his unthinking "all TWAW" stance has led to friction between the two of us once or twice).

And at that point about half a dozen other people, who would have known nothing about it were it not for the lashing out and nastiness, chimed in to say they had stopped coming to our house if they knew the person would be at that particular event, and that the attack on DH was insufferable, and generally supporting DH in what he had done. We may have lost one or two friends – but actually, the two other TiMs who are part of the group were entirely supportive of us and furious about the accusations of transphobia. In at least two cases we realised it was the fear of that accusation that had kept other friends quiet about how they felt.

Someone had to take a stand and then stand the flak. We are better off anyway without someone who thinks it appropriate to wear a white frilly dress and high heels to a garden barbecue and has to be the centre of attention at all times, and we can all do without the insults and verbal violence which we fear might escalate.

The worst that can happen if you tell unvarnished truth is that you lose the hiking group, and it looks rather as if that is going to happen just the same if you don't. So you might as well bite the bullet.

Exactly what I was thinking! why aren't people saying something to this mannerless ungrateful woman?

This is excellent advice.

I think it would be mean to start a new group without her, and think the advice above is a great way of confronting the issues and setting ground rules. Hopefully she will get the hint! But it also avoids just leaving her out altogether.

But this is my point - asking for your own stuff back or saying you are unable to give someone a life isnt "confrontation". If you asked someone at work for a lift somewhere and they said "sorry, I can't" would you then tell everyone that they had "confronted" you? of course you wouldn't.

Saying no isnt confrontation. By this rationale, you'd have to say yes to everything no matter how unappealing the suggestion. I appreciate people find it hard to say no but then, dont bitch/complain about it behind their backs 🤷‍♀️

Bring her to the top of the mountain and leave her there.

45p a mile! Im all for petrol money but jesus

I know it's crazy and a bit pathetic....but I think because it's gone on for so long it's got "bigger" and speaking up now with a whole list of grievances can feel scary (and confrontational) for some people....

That's how I feel to be honest, and I'm worried she would slate me all over social media and make me look like an awful person.

Read the book "not nice" by Aziz Gazipura - its very good for breaking out of people pleasing

Start a new group and ignore her.

it’s easier said than done, but someone needs to tell her how her behaviour is affecting the group and at least give her the chance to remedy it. Perhaps she’s genuinely
unaware how she comes across? If you tell her and she doesn’t acknowledge it or doesn’t change then you’re justified in starting another group and she will be aware of your reasons why.

Jesus Christ give me her number I'm just in the mood today to tell somebody where to get off.
Why are some people so bloody entitled

I totally understand where you're coming from and would also struggle with this....but one of the posters suggested a general message to your WhatsApp with "rules" which doesn't name names but gets the point across so I would deffo go with that option lol. Good luck!

I do think this would help - its just annoys me that its necessary when the rest of us car share, have manners and return stuff we borrow without having it set out,

I would say not to post rules and tell her she is rude . Just do you.
Don’t engage - ignore her requests. If she messages directly say that you are unable to give her a lift / sorry I can’t help. Be a broken record no reasons.
Tell others what you have decided to do and then if’s up to them how they respond.

If no one takes her she won’t come.
Set up a second group and plan half the trips on there so it’s a slow fade.

It sounds like she does not read social situations or peoples emotions very well. If you put ground rules in the chat I really don't think she would pick up on that at all. I can't helping thinking if this was a child people would be suggesting she is somewhere on the spectrum, ( I don't mean that to be offensive and I'm no expert so happy to be corrected in a non aggressive manner of obviously) that doesn't mean everyone else's life should be made miserable and the enjoyment should be taken out of your gatherings. Out of interest is she still friends with your original friend or has she just been dumped on you? Are you still in touch with the other friend? Are you able to speak to her about it and find out how she managed with her?

Doesn't anyone else find this suggested list of 'new rules' to be posted in the group incredibly passive agressive and a bit cringe. I am experiencing 2nd hand embarrassment at the obviousness of it.
Also, when she casually just breaks these rules, because she will be oblivious as to her own behaviour, someone is still going to have to be 'confrontational' and put this to her. Or she'll see them and take massive offence and cause the sort of trouble you are all trying to avoid anyway.

You’re very brave planning to have a proper chat with her and explain your grievances. I’d have just started a new chat group and ghosted her.

Has she replied to the message saying she shouldn’t come? Maybe she’ll get in a huff and bin you all. Job’s a good ‘un.

I voted YABU BUT that is purely because your entire group are utterly bonkers to have let this carry on as long as you have!

You've gone to all the trouble of coming here and typing out an essay when you could have simply gone to the group whatsapp and written 'That doesn't work for us. best you sit this one out' or, even better, removed her from the group!

You could even take the coward's way out and close the group then start a new one.

HOW does a group of women - who are all clearly disgruntled by the actions of this individual and have been for some time - become so adverse to confrontation that they can't speak up for yourselves?

IMO putting up with her then bitching and moaning about it behind her back makes you all a part of the problem.

Also seems very fishy the original friend introduced her and then withdrew - almost like she was deliberately palming off Susan onto you all!

I would be so pissed off at that friend.

Quick while she is injured, plan anything that can require the matching swimsuit and come to collect it from her. Once you get it back, set up a new group and just ghost the old one.