To be absolutely fed up with a 'friend' in our group

[FierceForester90]

This is long sorry, but needed for context.

I am friends with a group of wonderful ladies who have all known each other for 6 years now, We met through a shared love of hiking and try to go every couple of weekends and also have a couple of overnight trips through the year.

We have a Whatsapp group to plan stuff - a couple of years ago one of our friends brought her friend 'Susan' to a hike and invited her to the Whatsapp. Since then the original lady has stepped back from joining us, but Susan has remained with us.

She is unfortunately quite a rude and difficult lady. She can drive, but doesn't - a group of us car share but she never offers and assumes she can have a lift without asking.

In the earlier days she came on a weekend away, she borrowed kit from others that she has still not returned, did not drive or offer any fuel money, and insisted that two separate people in the group called her before the trip to go through the weekends plan in great detail (I was over an house on the phone). She talks non stop and often speaks over other people.

In more recent times she has asked one of the group for a lift to a hike, when the person she asked wasn't well enough to do it herself, suggesting that she 'stayed warm in the car' while she went out with others. Last week an outing was arranged an her response was 'I'll tag along with XXX" no please, no thank you, no 'do you mind?'

She demands photos are taken of her but never offers to return the favour. She has in the past messaged people away from the main group saying how disappointed she is if she sees anyone has been out without her.

Susan is currently injured, and yesterday a message went into the group chat about going out tomorrow. Her response was 'I'll come but I need a lift and help to get up and down things'. No please, no thank you, no w'would anyone be OK o help me'.

We are at a point where some people just won't post plans in the chat anymore because of her behaviour and lack of manners. I'd love to just remove her from the group but it feels mean.

AIBU to feel that her behaviour is awful and just be totally fed up with it?

😂

FOLKS SHE'S ALREADY DELETED HER!

So happy that you managed to read all those messages. I thought the OP was asking for an opinion, so more people she gets who confirm the same, better she can feel about it. @TheRuffleandthePearl Get a life, be nicer to people!

Agree.
It's a constant refrain on MN that does not compute in real life IMO.
Arseholes are arseholes, ND is always a coincidence not ever a given, except on MN.
In real life I NEVER hear it used as an explanation for either sex being an arsehole.

Click see all and scroll to the bottom messages

People will be turning up for at least another two days and advising the OP to do either what she has already done or what she decided not to do, I expect.

Am I the only one thinking that the original friend who inflicted this woman on your group before leaving, did so on purpose so she wouldn’t have to put up with her and she’d be your problem?

That idea has certainly come up a time or two in the 22 pages before this one, sometimes with admiration for her cleverness or for her cheek, sometimes with disgust.

‘All those messages’? There’s only 23!

They say "when you have met one autistic person....you have met one autistic person". It presents in different ways. I have a friend whose social faux pas are legendary. She comes across as incredibly rude and lacking consideration for others. This doesn't mean every autistic person is like this - it is one of the ways it can present though.

Could you quote where literally anyone has said that?

Obviously this isn't behaviour typical of ALL autistic people. But it is behaviour that is typical of SOME autistic people. And it is also behaviour typical of some people who have experienced trauma or poor upbringing or who just are rude. The point is we don't actually know one way or the other, and personally I'd prefer to stretch slightly to accommodate someone on the chance they may be autistic or struggling than double down.

Op it's done now so no going back but personally I think you've all kind of been quite passive aggressive here without meaning to be. The fairest way to handle this would have been to make a group agreement that you'll all be more direct with this woman and then watch and see if her behaviour adjusts to that. Then if things don't change, moving it on.

The people I know who are autistic prefer to be told things directly as they know they sometimes miss social cues and they appreciate the honesty as it helps them maintain the relationship. But other people often get so tied up in knots over communicating that it becomes easier and more comfortable just to leave someone out. At which point it's not really about the neurodiversity or the behaviour, it's actually about your own discomfort being honest and assertive.

So the whole group dynamic should change and everyone must alter their behaviour to accommodate 1 person? When they have joined after everyone else and shown no interest in the group apart from taking what she can get out of it with no regard for anyone else?

It's not their responsibility to spend their leisure time fixing this woman

@Lavender14 its far more likely this woman is just bloody rude and selfish.

Have you not encountered people like this before? I have and no, they were not ND.

Also, what you say about being told directly and being honest, the OP ALREADY told this woman directly it was not a good idea to take her hiking when she was injured and other people in the group agreed it was a poor idea and this woman STILL privately messaged people in the group trying to convince them to change their minds!

Therefore, she has already been told "the truth" and she is manipulatively trying to convince people otherwise. Therefore, what you are saying is completely irrelevant because her behaviour shows that honesty and firmness doesnt actually work with her, does it?

I wonder if she’ll go quietly!

Oh come on. If you’ve reached adulthood with literally no idea that borrowing things and not returning them / constantly taking without ever giving is rude, then you’re probably immune to healthy social shame, and therefore not capable of much social learning. And while something like this might be cognitively confusing and inconvenient, it is not going to feel hurtful and humiliating in the way it would to someone who genuinely cares about other people and isn’t emotionally locked in to their own experience and agenda.

Lavender14
The people I know who are autistic prefer to be told things directly as they know they sometimes miss social cues and they appreciate the honesty as it helps them maintain the relationship.

Which bit of "Please would you give back the swimsuit you 'borrowed' from me last year", said repeatedly, is too difficult for someone with autism to comprehend?

Speaking as an autistic person, it's not. But also this friend is just rude, autistic or not.

Yes. Suggestions that she might be autistic, on the spectrum, ND or whatever are red herrings, and insulting to anyone autistic, on the spectrum, ND.

She's rude, selfish and dishonest. Whether she might ALSO be black, or a redhead, or one-armed, or dyslexic, would be just as irrelevant (and offensive) as suggestions she might be autistic are.

I'm wondering if that matters really as a good friend would have been aware of some of the issues this other lady was causing and maybe nipped her behaviour in the bud before it got to this point. She may even be embarrassed by this.

Years ago I was on the committee of a walking group and had to have a conversation with a newish member who continually caused issues by not wearing appropriate footwear for country walking. With some friendly and supportive advice from me, I even offered to go to the shop with her, she bought some proper walking boots and continued being a member for many years afterwards.

Do you mean 23 pages as opposed to 23 posts?

I don’t see it as insulting to autistic people. As others have said, everyone is different, but autism could be one possible explanation for the behaviour, so it seems reasonable to mention it as a potential factor.
That doesn’t mean anyone is suggesting that autistic people are always rude, or that rudeness should simply be excused. However, things like a strong sense of fairness or sometimes missing social cues can play a role in behaviour or how someone come across. In this case we just don’t know.

Peonyperfection
things like a strong sense of fairness or sometimes missing social cues can play a role in behaviour or how someone come across.

We know she has frod all sense of fairness. If she had any, she would not be so blatantly unfair in her treatment of everyone.

And as for "sometimes missing social cues": I think a direct request to return something you have got and which belongs to someone else is fairly difficult to "miss", especially when it is a repeated request.

"She's nasty, hey, maybe that's because she is autistic" is not insulting to autistic people who are not nasty? Howso? Cause and effect are clearly linked there. I should think autistic people must be as fed up with that slur as bipolar ones are with the assumption that they are all likely to be dangerously aggressive at all times.

@askingquestionsallthetime

If you read my post I did not say the person under discussion had a sense of fairness. A direct request can be misunderstood, not understanding the urgency, the need or simply forgetting.

As for stating ‘autistic people’ as if every autistic person thinks the same, is in fact very insulting.

But this is not what the ops post is about so let’s agree to disagree.

No.

23 posts. (Plus the original one, so 24 really)

Here’s a screenshot.

Create another group. Don't add her and let the original whatsapp group die a natural death. The end.

OP sorted it on Sunday evening.