To be absolutely fed up with a 'friend' in our group

[FierceForester90]

This is long sorry, but needed for context.

I am friends with a group of wonderful ladies who have all known each other for 6 years now, We met through a shared love of hiking and try to go every couple of weekends and also have a couple of overnight trips through the year.

We have a Whatsapp group to plan stuff - a couple of years ago one of our friends brought her friend 'Susan' to a hike and invited her to the Whatsapp. Since then the original lady has stepped back from joining us, but Susan has remained with us.

She is unfortunately quite a rude and difficult lady. She can drive, but doesn't - a group of us car share but she never offers and assumes she can have a lift without asking.

In the earlier days she came on a weekend away, she borrowed kit from others that she has still not returned, did not drive or offer any fuel money, and insisted that two separate people in the group called her before the trip to go through the weekends plan in great detail (I was over an house on the phone). She talks non stop and often speaks over other people.

In more recent times she has asked one of the group for a lift to a hike, when the person she asked wasn't well enough to do it herself, suggesting that she 'stayed warm in the car' while she went out with others. Last week an outing was arranged an her response was 'I'll tag along with XXX" no please, no thank you, no 'do you mind?'

She demands photos are taken of her but never offers to return the favour. She has in the past messaged people away from the main group saying how disappointed she is if she sees anyone has been out without her.

Susan is currently injured, and yesterday a message went into the group chat about going out tomorrow. Her response was 'I'll come but I need a lift and help to get up and down things'. No please, no thank you, no w'would anyone be OK o help me'.

We are at a point where some people just won't post plans in the chat anymore because of her behaviour and lack of manners. I'd love to just remove her from the group but it feels mean.

AIBU to feel that her behaviour is awful and just be totally fed up with it?

Do you think the woman who invited her to your group did so intending to then bail out herself?
And given she was never invited in the first place and you say people have tried to reason with her, a new group is the only option.

Ive come across many susans at different stages of life .
They are entitled users who rely on you being too kind and polite to object to their demands.
It requires dealing with and there are 2 options

1. saying NO to Susan. "ill need a lift with x" "sorry i cant give you a lift today"
2. Avoiding by forming a separate group without Susan (though Susans are often very thick skinned they will track down the new group .

So, a final.update. This evening I spoke to the other WhatsApp admin (i am the other one) who had been concerned about removing her. We talked it through and came to the conclusion that it wasn't good for the group for her to remain. I removed her from.the group chat thos evening but at the same time sent a message tk her explaining why. Thank you all for you advice.

Don’t remove her just set up a new WhatsApp group and let the old one die a death

My initial thoughts are that that's incredibly harsh but actually, I'm know starting to think you've probably done this woman a favour. She has exited the group before it gets nasty for her, and she can now reflect on how she presents herself to future friends/friendship groups.

She sounds awful but some of these replies are straight out of primary school. 'Tell her what you all think of her and then block', do you not think adults should go about this sort of thing in a more subtle (and less hurtful) way? Blocking someone just for being annoying is incredibly juvenile.

I think it's good you explained. And it's also fine to have a new group, as you had no obligation to continue as you were for another season or longer.
No friendship group owes itself to another person indefinitely. It's nice that you tried hard to include her, but you can't be expected to stop your activities as a long-time group of friends, or have those activities substantially changed/worsened by someone else who was added by one member!

Well done for removing her!

I can't believe you need to ask here if you are being unreasonable. You and the other ladies in the group are enabling this rude, unbearable person. One of you should get a backbone and tell her directly. People like her never ' take a hint'. If you don't want to be the one who tells her, create a new group and exclude her ( where you can explain the reasons to the others, who are bound to agree). Do you even care what this awful woman thinks? She cares about none of you.

@FierceForester90 I'm glad you told her and removed her from the group, having explained it to her. I think that it actually was the kinder way of dealing with the situation, than just ghosting her. She may be able to reflect on what you told her and maybe she will do better in other groups she may join in the future, now she has been told. All the best to your group going forward

This

Hopefully your WhatsApp group is now set up so only you two admins can add people in, otherwise I wouldn't put it past her to message someone else in the group and ask them to add her back in !!

Because adults should be aware of how their behaviour affects others. They should know how to be polite and have basic social manners. Other adults shouldn’t have go over and above for their scant minimum, or do extra work (and it IS work) to make them behave tolerably. It’s an unfair mental and emotional load and people who are polite and do have manners are allowed to feel it’s an unreasonable ask and complain about it or not want to do it. Even if being polite and having manners means it’s sometimes unavoidable, it helps to vent about it.

What really ticks me off, though, is that these people AREN’T oblivious to the fact that they are taking advantage and getting more than they’re giving. They genuinely feel that it’s fine and other people’s extra effort for their benefit is just…OK. They don’t need to reciprocate.

Create a new group chat with everyone added apart from her. Make plans and don't post any pictures online of your outings. Problem solved. If everyone else has been on the outings and agrees to it, you can all block her number from your phones.

It was a clever move of the original friend to palm her off on you all and then retreat so she doesn't have to deal with her anymore. Copy her move and do the same.

If you block her on whatsapp it will leave her visible on the group but prevent private texts. That might solve part of the problem.

😮😮😮😮
Fair play OP!!!

It will no doubt hurt her feelings.
But neutral feedback may well be useful to her.
Her behaviour is honestly pretty bad its self centred and demonstrates a lack of community and consideration for others. You cant take from a group continually and give nothing ans expect to remain in it. Its not how it works ....

Hope you guys can get back to enjoying your group!

Start a new chat group and let the one she is in fizzle out

make a new WhatsApp group without her, she sounds awful!!

Well done. I think that was the only course of action really and you have also messaged her to explain why. Stand your ground now and don’t let her guilt trip any of you to let her back in. She only has herself to blame. Hope you can all continue to enjoy your hikes now.

Oh seen your update. Good luck and hope your group can settle and thrive now.

In my experience, any confrontation is pointless, because it relies on them believing you matter as much as they do and having insight into their own behaviour and how it affects others. If they had that, they wouldn’t behave like this in the first place. They don’t just say ‘point. I’ve been a bit shit. I’m sorry, I’ll be more polite’. They defend and excuse themselves, and blame you for calling them out - they already KNOW they’ve been shit. They just think you don’t matter as much as them. You’ll only get caught up in a load of their bullshit reasons why it’s ok for them to behave like that and you shouldn’t mind.

My other lesson from the experience of removing these people from your life (which is really the only option) is to do it gradually. It is not nice being excluded or excluding people and being uncomfortable over it is good evidence that it IS her and not you. I would only attend for group hikes once a month and on the other weeks I would go one on one. And I would gradually include others in those one on ones to build up to groups, at least initially with a new WhatsApp group for each specific hike. And then I would stop going to the groups. I wouldn’t discuss it, but I would comment briefly (in person only) to others that I was finding her hard work and I am intentionally distancing myself. I’d be guided by their response - if they still want or feel obliged to include her, I would distance myself from the whole group and limit myself to the one on ones or smaller groups. Depending on other friendships or proximities, it might be more awkward for some people to
distance themselves. If the general consensus seems to be everyone would prefer groups without her, I’d go along with that and start a new group. If someone added her, I’d remove her.

I would block her from my social media but leave messages open and if she contacted me, I would respond, once, that I was finding myself preferring smaller groups just at the moment. Then I’d either just respond blithely with busy-busy-must-catch up messages, or not respond at all depending on how awkward she made it or how likely I was to run into her. And if she continued to contact me or made a drama (which seems likely, because she clearly lacks social awareness) I would just point out that adults are free to socialise or not as they choose and I wouldn’t engage further. You could just fast forward to this point, but I think that’s a bit rude and just catering to your own comfort and dumping the discomfort on others. And as that’s my problem with people like this, I think that would be hypocritical.