To be absolutely fed up with a 'friend' in our group

[FierceForester90]

This is long sorry, but needed for context.

I am friends with a group of wonderful ladies who have all known each other for 6 years now, We met through a shared love of hiking and try to go every couple of weekends and also have a couple of overnight trips through the year.

We have a Whatsapp group to plan stuff - a couple of years ago one of our friends brought her friend 'Susan' to a hike and invited her to the Whatsapp. Since then the original lady has stepped back from joining us, but Susan has remained with us.

She is unfortunately quite a rude and difficult lady. She can drive, but doesn't - a group of us car share but she never offers and assumes she can have a lift without asking.

In the earlier days she came on a weekend away, she borrowed kit from others that she has still not returned, did not drive or offer any fuel money, and insisted that two separate people in the group called her before the trip to go through the weekends plan in great detail (I was over an house on the phone). She talks non stop and often speaks over other people.

In more recent times she has asked one of the group for a lift to a hike, when the person she asked wasn't well enough to do it herself, suggesting that she 'stayed warm in the car' while she went out with others. Last week an outing was arranged an her response was 'I'll tag along with XXX" no please, no thank you, no 'do you mind?'

She demands photos are taken of her but never offers to return the favour. She has in the past messaged people away from the main group saying how disappointed she is if she sees anyone has been out without her.

Susan is currently injured, and yesterday a message went into the group chat about going out tomorrow. Her response was 'I'll come but I need a lift and help to get up and down things'. No please, no thank you, no w'would anyone be OK o help me'.

We are at a point where some people just won't post plans in the chat anymore because of her behaviour and lack of manners. I'd love to just remove her from the group but it feels mean.

AIBU to feel that her behaviour is awful and just be totally fed up with it?

I would give her a chance, clearly pointing out the issues, and asking her for her opinion. This would give her the opportunity to make you aware of any genuine issues, for example, she doesn't offer to drive as her car is unreliable, or she replies quickly to texts and hadn't realised it came across as rude, but she'll make sure to be polite from now on. If she's just socially awkward/oblivious, this gives her the chance to improve. If she flies into a rage/isn't willing to modify her behaviour, then it's all sorted-you can just continue without her, knowing you did your best.

Iv binned off similar people previously! My mother is so bad for this, expects the world, never says please or thank you, wish I could bin her off also 😅

She's gotten used to treating you all that way so would be hard to stop. I'd start a new WhatsApp if i were you.

Would the less confident members be okay with at the next full group meeting agreeing by majority vote rules for the original what's app group as suggested by pp, but also agreeing a driving rota, new members process, etc.

She sounds desperately lonely, totally unself aware and like she was dumped on you by the original member who was likely struggling to cope on her. Have you asked why she brought her?

Unfortunately we had to do this in book club. Someone’s husband mentioned it to a colleague and she was a nightmare. Took it far too seriously and actually started telling people off for going off topic (and we are there more for the social side and def don’t take it too seriously), so we told a fib and said we didn’t have time for it anymore, then started a new WhatsApp without her. She wasn’t a friend of any of us and we didn’t want the drama (or to be scolded like we were at school!)
I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong, I very much doubt having a word would result in her suddenly finding her manners, she is who she is!

You've started your new group minus Susan + friend who introduced her. Now you plan to post occasionally on the old group and also occasionally arrange the odd outing on that old group, if I've understood correctly.

I'd be anxious on those infrequent outings that someone (probably me, tbh) would drop a clanger and refer to last week's hike or something that S and friend hadn't known about. That anxiety wouldn't be very conducive to a pleasant afternoon. I think.

I think it would be a bit mean just to all bugger off to a new group and heave her out; you can’t knock her enthusiasm although her manner leaves a lot to be desired.
Could you and the other members of the group come up with a few “group rules” such as :
whilst we are all happy to share lifts, passengers are requested to contribute towards fuel
although we all love our hikes we aren’t spring chickens anymore so will not be able to assist anyone who isn’t 100%
etc
You could say that these things were agreed verbally when the group started and you’re just making sure new members are aware.
Or you could just say “right Phyllis, we’re happy to have you with us but your attitude stinks - buck up”.

Well done on setting up the new group.
Tell anyone that disagrees they are more than welcome to contact her directly if they wishbto explain things and not join the new group if they feel so conflicted.

Good idea to ask that no one adds anyone to the group going forward.
That person was a real CF to add someone like that without asking first.
It's amazing how one rude, demanding, PITA, can sour a group.

I think one of you may need to put your big pants on and have a friendly-but-honest word with her, or set some general ground rules in the original WhatsApp group. She sounds like someone who creates her own chaos without quite realising it, and I suspect she’s been frozen out before simply because people avoid saying anything.

Initially re-assert she should not come on the planned trip as she is not well and needs to heal.

Then it might help to explain that the group is meant to be self‑sufficient, mutually supportive and generally pleasant to be around — not an episode of Driving Miss Daisy. Add things like:

• Not everyone drives, so it’s genuinely kind when people offer lifts. It’s not automatic, and it’s polite to ask rather than assume you’ve got your own personal chauffeur.
• It’s also unfair for one driver to become the designated taxi service. Drivers should take turns where possible, and non‑drivers might want to offer petrol money — it keeps things fair and stops quiet resentment brewing. If a driver volunteers more regularly than others, then all need to offer petrol money - perhaps agree a mileage rate now for such occasions.
• Group decisions are made as a group. Democracy may be messy, but it’s better than one person dictating the itinerary.
• If someone is temporarily unwell or limited, it may be best for them to “sit this one out” until they’re able to join safely again. Otherwise the whole outing ends up revolving around one person’s needs and create a potential H&S risk for all concerned. if someone is long-term incapacitated, the group can organise an occasional none active, social event to include them.
• Borrowing kit or clothing is fine, but it should be returned clean and promptly — not three outings later looking like it’s been through a hedge. Repeated requests for return should not be acceptable and future demands for return or refusal to lend, may offend.

None of this is criticism; it’s just basic courtesy that keeps the group running smoothly and stops anyone feeling taken advantage of.

If Susan fails to listen after being given this chance to adjust then leave her out of future plans and if she asks why, say she does not fit in with the those of the group.

.

Yes... Perhaps mean spirited

BUT similar happened in a larger group I was part of... We just ended up with someone who wasn't QUITE as bad, but still pretty draining... She wasn't someone anyone would have chosen as a pal, she had joined our extended group when she had pounced upon one of the kinder members of our group.

I left the area eventually.

I just kept in contact with those people I wanted to..

The odd rude person eventually drifted off... But this was a full five years after she had had a 'little chat'...

Personally I would have preferred if we'd just quietly dropped her..
She was so bloody thick skinned/rude I don't think she would have realised and prob would have found someone else to be annoying around

She completely changed the group dynamic, had way too much control over what /where we went... As she'd be a nightmare if it didn't go her way etc etx

3luckystars
I do think you will feel better about it if you say what you need to say to her and give her a chance,

Yes, but how many chances has she already been given, over the years since she invaded the group to turn it into her personal support network?

(The words to employ might be "What did your last slave die of?" every time she makes a demand without a please in the sentence.... But "sorry, who?" would be less tiring in the long run.)

But this is when you have to be direct and say,
'No because you are more than capable of driving and you're taking the fucking the piss'
A 'No' just won't cut it and its where you lot are failing in this confrontation.

You should tell her she's more trouble than she's worth.

I think this calls for some hard hitting humour.

next time she asks and is CF, reply along the lines with “isn't it your turn to drive” and add a smiley or laughing face, what is said in jest can sometimes work better. When she is being CF outlandish you laugh “ goodness we must invite you more”, or “have you tried please or thank you”.

you could discuss things with the mutual friend who has taken a leave from the group, she may have a better way to communicate with her.

Or just take her to one side and be honest that you find her difficult to understand and find her lack of manners upsetting. She may have something like ASD where she does not understand social cues or subtlety. You have to be clear, firm but not unkind.
If all this fails, start your group again and sometimes do things in a smaller group.

OP, have you asked the original friend why she left? It’s a bit shitty that she practically dumped her on you to start with.i think the fact she has dm others for lifts after being told you will not be assisting her is the cheekiest, rudest thing she could have done! So what would have happened once she was there and realised she was hiking without help! I hope she’s got back to you but I would have had to say something before blocking her!

I think making the new group is fine but I do think you should clearly signal to her what's going wrong so she gets clear messaging that her behaviour has led to this. I'd just ring her up and say words to the effect of - Sally, just wanted to let you know that there have been some concerns raised about your behaviour. It has been noted that you often ask for lifts but never reciprocate, that you expect others to do everything for you (eg suggesting attending X walk when injured and saying people would have to help you), and that people feel they always have to run the planning of every trip past you (try to give specific examples). I wanted to tell you what has been discussed because if it was me I'd want to know as I would want the chance to change my approach to things with the group. I fear if things continue as they are then the group will not want you to join our trips any more.' Then you give her another chance to join a trip in a few weeks on the old group. If she's still a dick you have warned her and you just don't use that group any more, and she will know why.

I also think that a large part of this is all of your making. You need to tell her the situation otherwise she won't know. Assuming she will know hasn't worked. Of course if one person says no to a lift she will ask someone else, that is normal. You just need to say - no Sally, I can't give you a lift as to be honest we are all getting a bit tired of you never reciprocating lifts. This is a group that works by people helping each other, which means you too need to take your turn. Maybe if you had all told her months ago she'd be better. But ultimately IMO life is too short to put up with people that piss you off. So as I said above I'd use your new group but tell her honestly what you are all thinking, give her a chance to respond to that and stop being a dick on one trip, if she doesn't never use the old group again and just ignore her messages.

I have a family member like this and I’ve watched her be excluded and friendships fizzle out over the years - she still hasn’t realised and changed her ways and when I have gently tried to point out why she may have been excluded she just shrugs - honestly she has the skin of a rhino and will never realise that she’s the problem. She just takes and takes and never offers anything back and when it stops working she moves on to other people.

The admin of the group can just remover her from the group, you can also block her number so she can't private message you. Or create a new group and add everyone except her. Then stop replying until it sinks in.

Start a new group chat without her. She sounds obnoxious!

This!

I would have already broken a finger starting a new Whatsapp group minus her.
I don't think this type of personality will be very good at taking 'feedback'

This is why DH is strict with his friendship / hobby group who go away on a trip annually to do their sport and have done for years. Others in the group used to ask if their friend x and y can join and DH always said hard no.

Their group works well as it is and as poor op has set out here how one additional member can mess the whole thing up for everyone and the group are then either stuck with them or destroy the group or have to be “mean” to the interloper to get rid. Far easier to keep it closed.

I do take exception that the idea of not endlessly pandering to a selfish CF, or committing to taking her to task like a naughty child every time she misbehaves is somehow cliquey mean girl behaviour.

We've all met people like 'Susan', and no matter how many times you explain ground rules, ask for borrowed items back, tell her she needs to drive sometimes, explain that her behaviour is not on, she's not going to get any better, and may also make a massive stink about it. She's not a pleasant or community-minded person, and it will always be all about her and her needs.

People like this will bleed you dry if you let them.

The only way to keep your hiking group going is to let this one die and start a new one without her. People like this can't and don't learn - and don't want to, or think they should have to - and will just endlessly shit into the middle of everything they try to participate in. Save yourselves!