To be absolutely fed up with a 'friend' in our group

[FierceForester90]

This is long sorry, but needed for context.

I am friends with a group of wonderful ladies who have all known each other for 6 years now, We met through a shared love of hiking and try to go every couple of weekends and also have a couple of overnight trips through the year.

We have a Whatsapp group to plan stuff - a couple of years ago one of our friends brought her friend 'Susan' to a hike and invited her to the Whatsapp. Since then the original lady has stepped back from joining us, but Susan has remained with us.

She is unfortunately quite a rude and difficult lady. She can drive, but doesn't - a group of us car share but she never offers and assumes she can have a lift without asking.

In the earlier days she came on a weekend away, she borrowed kit from others that she has still not returned, did not drive or offer any fuel money, and insisted that two separate people in the group called her before the trip to go through the weekends plan in great detail (I was over an house on the phone). She talks non stop and often speaks over other people.

In more recent times she has asked one of the group for a lift to a hike, when the person she asked wasn't well enough to do it herself, suggesting that she 'stayed warm in the car' while she went out with others. Last week an outing was arranged an her response was 'I'll tag along with XXX" no please, no thank you, no 'do you mind?'

She demands photos are taken of her but never offers to return the favour. She has in the past messaged people away from the main group saying how disappointed she is if she sees anyone has been out without her.

Susan is currently injured, and yesterday a message went into the group chat about going out tomorrow. Her response was 'I'll come but I need a lift and help to get up and down things'. No please, no thank you, no w'would anyone be OK o help me'.

We are at a point where some people just won't post plans in the chat anymore because of her behaviour and lack of manners. I'd love to just remove her from the group but it feels mean.

AIBU to feel that her behaviour is awful and just be totally fed up with it?

They are tricky op. Have it on my daughters team. Twins bumming lifts weekly. Its never shared out. If they message no one replies. Susan sounds similar. Its when its take take Im annoyed. Very entitled.

I hope you enjoyed your day out in the lovely spring weather. I think you've handled a difficult situation really well - the danger in these situations is when nobody speaks up, nobody wants to "speak for the whole group" and individuals quietly realise it's no longer the companionable, supportive and easy group that it used to be, and people stop attending because they don't enjoy it any more. It'd be different if it was an official club open to the public, but it's not, and if she's not a good fit, that's not fair on anyone.
I hope she returns the loaned items.

Well, you're only doing a version of what Susan did, which was to dump her on you and run.

I don't know why you'd feel bad singling her out: that's literally what you'd be doing because she singularly needs to be called out. Confrontation is a healthy and normal part of life, when you're being used or abused or taken advantage of. It isn't unkind when done properly: it's assertive, firm and done properly, respectful. You just stick to the facts in outlining the problem, the consequences of her actions and the conclusion you've reached. There's nothing to argue with. Assert yourselves!

ETA my main point (!!): you think that what you've done is kind to her, by not calling her out or dealing with the situation. In fact what you've done is sly and cruel. You may feel ok doing that given her past behaviour towards the rest of the group, but this does mean that you're really just as bad as she is. It's underhand and hypocritical - all because you don't like confrontation. Not very adult behaviour, I'm afraid.

Start another group, and everyone leave that one en masse so that Susan is alone with her thoughts. Or the person who's the head of the group blocks her/ removes her from the group. Life is too short to be around people who are mean.

You and the others need to agree that you will start calling her out.

Her: ill need a lift
you: isnt it your turn to drive?

her: i will need help
You: sorry, i cannot assist. Come when you’re better

you: hey Susan; your turn to drive. We have all done it twice each
her: i dont like driving
you: ok, we are tired of you not pulling your weight

Just set a new chat up and organise things away from her. Then if she asks on the other everyone just says they have other things on or are ill etc until she gets the hint nasty or not no excuse for her behaviour either

She sounds ridiculously selfish but it’s most likely her nature ( even tho it’s awful ) Either someone confronts her about her behaviour , ask her to return the stuff she “ borrowed “ and tell her she will need to drive if she wants to come etc etc . Or else say nothing and let it fester . . It might just be easier to start another WhatsApp group .

Wind your neck in.
This lady is a CF. I am not saying that ND people use their ND as an excuse, I’m saying that people will happily excuse CF behaviour by suggesting she may be ND.
ND people should even more cross about this than I am, but there you go….attacking an ally rather than understanding the point they are making.

Start a new group without her and archive the current one?

Can I just add, I think your group needs one main organiser. Say it's YOU. If Susan starts messaging people asking for lifts or details Margaret, Betty or Pauline if they don't want to say a flat no can say FierceForester90 is the organiser and has all the info and refer her onto you. This is when u need to pull on your big girl pants and tell her. There's no way round it. All take turns driving that way no-one is being chauffeured around and all taking turns.

I've read your updates. Tbh I don't think it's a good idea posting randomly in the original group, I'd stop contact altogether. She isn't your friend and thats what a few commenters are forgetting, you don't need to make her feel included. Let her original friend reach out to her. Have you raised this with her friend that no longer interacts?

If it's not sinking in then unfortunately folk need to be more blunt....
Can you not implement the 45p per mile rule if having a lift?

New group is the only way. She's ruined the dynamics and enjoyment for the rest of you.

She's entitled and won't change.

Looks like the other person in your group who doesn't go any more dumped her on you and ran to get away from her tbh.

Don't need people like her in your life.

We women?

As I said on another thread, I am not part of the Borg. I have autonomy.

You are the first person to mention ND…..

Oi! Susan are you oblivious to sociatel norms such as please and thank you in which case it's long passed time you learnt them. No-one is saying you're a dickhead but that only because we too polite but yeah you're a piss taking chimps left paw so kindly refrain from such behaviour, thanking you

She sounds a bit like my friend who is autistic and does not pick up at all on social cues or 'normal' behaviours

She doesn't mean to be rude or abrupt but if she's in a routine of this is how it's done ... Then it's almost impossible to get her to change her mind on something

I think starting a new group was absolutely right here. Susan was never asked to be in the group and had been an absolute pain. OP has no obligation to here and just wants to get on with things with her original friends.

Absolutely fair!
I thought there’d be quite a number of people suggesting ND. I am pleasantly surprised to be wrong!

Sometimes there are so many issues and also the behaviour of the person is such that it is difficult to give enough precise feedback on what they'd need to do differently for things to fundamentally change. Here, it isn't just stop asking for lifts. If it was a real friendship it would be worth fighting for but this person was foisted on the OP and her group in an awkward way, just added to a group chat by someone who didnt check it was ok fir her to be a permanent group member and left herself. Would it have been okay to just remove her then? There is no scenario here that doesnt put the OP in an awkward situation and vulnerable to "mean girl" comments.

@FierceForester90You've done the absolute right thing for you and the other members of the group. I think what this scenario & this thread has demonstrated, is that there is no universal ‘right’ way, just whatever works & is right for you & your group.

Do a variation of this. Be proactive and say some like, Really looking forward to all our upcoming walks as the weather improves. Just to clarify expectations for old and new members of the group, lift sharing will continue but where this isn't possible, financial contributions will be expected. Equipment may be shared but must be returned. Etc.

Make it clear it’s her turn to drive and start a petrol kitty. If you’re all contributing then she can’t say anything and if she’s not contributing to either driving or the petrol then she doesn’t come. You all have to be in agreement that that’s the fair thing to do so she can’t manipulate the ones most likely to break. If she doesn’t keep to it, start an alternative group that doesn’t include her and disband the original group. But be up front with her first because some CF are oblivious to their behaviour if no one ever points it out.

New group was the only option. Once a relationship is soured it can't be undone. Even if she tried to behave better, there would be resentment on both sides, then people will start dropping out. Deff new rule on new group no adding others without agreement.
Successful groups grow organically, you can't force it.

Did you get the swimming and other gear back?

Dont worry that you might upset her. Oxygen thieves ( that’s what I call these people) are so thick skin it’s water off a ducks back.
More than likely this isn’t the first group she’s ponced off.