To be absolutely fed up with a 'friend' in our group

[FierceForester90]

This is long sorry, but needed for context.

I am friends with a group of wonderful ladies who have all known each other for 6 years now, We met through a shared love of hiking and try to go every couple of weekends and also have a couple of overnight trips through the year.

We have a Whatsapp group to plan stuff - a couple of years ago one of our friends brought her friend 'Susan' to a hike and invited her to the Whatsapp. Since then the original lady has stepped back from joining us, but Susan has remained with us.

She is unfortunately quite a rude and difficult lady. She can drive, but doesn't - a group of us car share but she never offers and assumes she can have a lift without asking.

In the earlier days she came on a weekend away, she borrowed kit from others that she has still not returned, did not drive or offer any fuel money, and insisted that two separate people in the group called her before the trip to go through the weekends plan in great detail (I was over an house on the phone). She talks non stop and often speaks over other people.

In more recent times she has asked one of the group for a lift to a hike, when the person she asked wasn't well enough to do it herself, suggesting that she 'stayed warm in the car' while she went out with others. Last week an outing was arranged an her response was 'I'll tag along with XXX" no please, no thank you, no 'do you mind?'

She demands photos are taken of her but never offers to return the favour. She has in the past messaged people away from the main group saying how disappointed she is if she sees anyone has been out without her.

Susan is currently injured, and yesterday a message went into the group chat about going out tomorrow. Her response was 'I'll come but I need a lift and help to get up and down things'. No please, no thank you, no w'would anyone be OK o help me'.

We are at a point where some people just won't post plans in the chat anymore because of her behaviour and lack of manners. I'd love to just remove her from the group but it feels mean.

AIBU to feel that her behaviour is awful and just be totally fed up with it?

Also I think calling the group “gutless” is really nasty. They’ve been nice enough to put up with this dreadful woman for a while by the sounds of it and are now rightfully getting fed up of her treatment of them. It’s really difficult having these conversations in real life.

Yes but it’s always the ops fault remember 🙄

So what’s your point then Anyone? That op and the others are to meekly put up with being treated rudely and basically like staff on an ongoing basis just because this woman has happened by chance to have been foisted on them (by someone who then notably has since vanished). Such a weird world view.

You need to start being more direct with her. She's only doing it because you're allowing it. "I'll come but I'll need lifted etc" "sorry Susan but that sounds like it might be a health and safety risk for you and the rest of the group. Please leave it until you are feeling better and can manage the hike independently"

'We are arranging a drivers rota please see who's doing what weeks, please contribute £x for a mileage kitty given petrol prices are rising so it's fair for everyone" "Susan I'm happy to take your photo but please take mine after"

Tbh I'm wondering if she's autistic, possibly never diagnosed as many women of a particular age weren't in which case very direct and clear but calm responses will help this.

I can't believe @AnyoneWhoHasAHeart is defending Susan.

She wasn't "welcomed into the group" at all. Someone added her then left the group. The rest were lumbered with someone they neither knew nor wanted.

They tried to make the best of it but Susan takes other people's stuff and doesn't return it, demands lifts ans assistance but never reciprocates nor expresses appreciation, and was such a nightmare on an overnight trip the trips have stopped.

She's a one-woman social plague.

The OP should pop over to pick up the borrowed items then explain to Susan that including her in the hiking group really isn't working for them, so that's an end to it.

Rip the plaster off and have done with it.

Get rid. Manners are awful 😞

Delete her from group.
Doesn't sound like she'd be a loss

Who’s admin? Just kick her at this point.

“Start a new group!” is the new “Cancel the cheque!”

Seriously though, I think it’s the only solution. It sounds like she has the hide of a rhino so even asking her to do things like take her share of driving etc will be ignored.

Start a new WhatsApp group, invite the people you want in it and slowly fade the old one out… you can still post in it occasionally but ooh, you know how hard it is for everyone to agree on a date for the next meet up…

Sadly she brings nothing positive. She is all take and no give.

She is annoying me second hand!

Being in a group of friends is a privilege that can be life enhancing. Wise women value these groups and are thoughtful in their treatment of the others giving as well as taking. Not being a clod hopping taker only like this woman. You’ve all given her more than a fair chance.

Mmm half of this is her fault and half is the fault of the group.

Obviously we only know the pov of the OP in those groups. But we have to go at face value - the suggestion is never that those OPs have behaved like this women. And ghosting for no reason obviously does happen.

Just start a new group and leave her out of it

If she’s naturally volatile and tone deaf to reading the room / doesn’t care about her conduct then there isn’t (sadly) a way this ends well. Especially if you live in a small or mid sized community where your paths will likely cross in the future.

Full ghosting and complete exclusion is the cowards way out and if the shoe was on the other foot most people would be hurt and defensive.

At the next meet she’s at I’d say in front of the whole group that you’re going to have a lift roster and there will be financial contributions each time. No exceptions. Warm others up to whole heartedly agree and support it vocally as a group.

That will give you the ability to call her out later.

Then, going forward, I would set up a separate group and only invite Susan to every fourth excursion. The long gaps between meets for her and the fact she will need to drive and contribute financially might see the group and the hiking die out as she gets bored / frustrated and moves onto her next victims. If challenged individually the group need to all tow the party line of ‘we’re all just go busy now’.

I would also contact the introducing friend separately to try to understand the history to make sure whatever transpired in the past didn’t ever turn really nasty.

It seems clear to all that what you would like to happen isn't going to happen.

Whether you like it or not, you are in a put up or shut up situation.

There is literally no point coming here to scream into the void if you're not going to also DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT in the real World!

@FierceForester90

From past experience, beware of speaking for 'the whole group' unless all of you have had a major discussion together and are in absolute agreement that you're to be the spokesperson.

Often if one person takes it upon themselves to say "We all feel..." or words to that effect you always get those who end up 'backtracking' if the offender confronts them. They deny any that they have any problem with the 'offender' or they'll downplay things or claim a 'misunderstanding'.

Stick to your own issues with her and let the others speak for themselves.

Utterly ridiculous, sexist post. Or just saying much more about the women you personally know.

The all-female friendship groups I'm part of are massive life-enhancers with no bitchiness or exclusion. Put goodwill and adulting in, get same out IME.

Too late now, but I was going to say, please proceed with caution! I partake of a group activity, and sometimes we'll all have a 'right bitch' about a particular wrong - "that's just not on. That's totally unacceptable. We need to say something" etc. Then me being stupid, sticks my head above the parapet, and mentions it, and the whole rest of the group uses it as a 'pile on', refuses to accept any criticism, and I'm out there on my own because my 'comrades' have hung me out to dry! Then later, those same comrades who would spout "well she can just f*k off with that" will be the ones saying "well d'ya know, I don't mind really". So I'm the bad bitch for speaking out.

@FierceForester90 - so is she getting a lift from the other person then after all?

All well put, but I think you are missing the point.

It's not a friendship group, it's a group to sort out the planning of an activity.

Susan wasn't "invited" to join, she was added with no consultation by someone who subsequently left the group. So Susan now has all their phone numbers and can message them privately, which she does. I dislike this type of group for this very reason.

I do think some of these problems have not been addressed properly so it is going to be harder now to address it.

It's not quite the same as other threads where it is genuine and long standing friends who do the ghosting.

Exactly. I have a university friend group I met in 1993 I would be most surprised and gutted to be suddenly excluded from. Then a group of younger women who I am in a netball team with and message to share lifts etc and have the odd meal out. If they ghosted me I’d be bemused and slightly hurt but certainly not devastated!

It really hurts to be ghosted. If she flounces then all to the good. Bit setting up another group and not telling her is a bit pathetic.

It’s supposed to be fun, not something that requires management strategy.

what a load of nonsense

Ultimately female friendship groups generally don’t work.
Um, where have you got this huge generalisation from, exactly? Maybe female friendships don't work for you because you're clearly sexist and talk rubbish! Most women benefit a lot from female friendships - as OP does with literally every other person (i.e. her actual FRIENDS, not Susan, who was a random add-on) in the group.
Feminism does not mean having to like every single other woman in the world!

The woman may have one flaw, and that has seen her ostracised seemingly without explanation.
Well, no, she has multiple flaws - tight, steals from others, willing to take but not give, annoying, rude, arrogant, impolite, guilt-trips others, poor manners! And the others have tried to explain some of these things but she hasn't taken the hint.

As pps have said, if a group of friends have all known each other for years, then it would be unfair for them to all decide to dump one member without any explanation because of one thing she has done wrong. But Susan was never really their friend - she was an add-on by a third party and none of them ever really liked her much to start with, for multiple, very good reasons, not just a one-off incident or a sole minor annoying habit. Completely different scenario.

While you are right in saying often the Mn collective is on the side of the Susan, when Susan is the OP, personally I've always wondered what the 'groups' version of events is in most of those examples too. There are 2 sides to every story. OP's group no longer wanting to spend time with Susan doesn't mean that Susan is going to be forever alone and never have any friends - just that this group isn't a good fit for her.

Oh and it's 'en masse' not 'on mass.'

No - she ignored the message and we went without her.

The fact that in the main group she acknowledged and appeared to understand the risks to her safety and to ours, but yet directly contacted another group member in the hope they would still take her just shows how she works.