To be absolutely fed up with a 'friend' in our group

[FierceForester90]

This is long sorry, but needed for context.

I am friends with a group of wonderful ladies who have all known each other for 6 years now, We met through a shared love of hiking and try to go every couple of weekends and also have a couple of overnight trips through the year.

We have a Whatsapp group to plan stuff - a couple of years ago one of our friends brought her friend 'Susan' to a hike and invited her to the Whatsapp. Since then the original lady has stepped back from joining us, but Susan has remained with us.

She is unfortunately quite a rude and difficult lady. She can drive, but doesn't - a group of us car share but she never offers and assumes she can have a lift without asking.

In the earlier days she came on a weekend away, she borrowed kit from others that she has still not returned, did not drive or offer any fuel money, and insisted that two separate people in the group called her before the trip to go through the weekends plan in great detail (I was over an house on the phone). She talks non stop and often speaks over other people.

In more recent times she has asked one of the group for a lift to a hike, when the person she asked wasn't well enough to do it herself, suggesting that she 'stayed warm in the car' while she went out with others. Last week an outing was arranged an her response was 'I'll tag along with XXX" no please, no thank you, no 'do you mind?'

She demands photos are taken of her but never offers to return the favour. She has in the past messaged people away from the main group saying how disappointed she is if she sees anyone has been out without her.

Susan is currently injured, and yesterday a message went into the group chat about going out tomorrow. Her response was 'I'll come but I need a lift and help to get up and down things'. No please, no thank you, no w'would anyone be OK o help me'.

We are at a point where some people just won't post plans in the chat anymore because of her behaviour and lack of manners. I'd love to just remove her from the group but it feels mean.

AIBU to feel that her behaviour is awful and just be totally fed up with it?

I have often told this story over the last 40 years to people in dilemmas such as the OP's. It dates from my first year at university, when one of my fellow freshers, who was a little bit younger than everybody else and clearly used to being super bright at his school, really annoyed everyone by being constantly arrogant and sneery about his aptitude - when we'd all got into the same university.

One of my friends took it upon himself to take the cocky boy out for a drink and to tell him very clearly that he was being a prick and was alienating everyone and he needed to shape up or else he'd have a terrible time at university. Nobody else dared to do it or wanted to do it or wanted to expose themselves to the possible unpleasantness of doing this, but this one friend did.

To the young lad's credit, he listened, took note and completely regrouped and started behaving like a decent human being. It just took one person brave enough to invest in him a little bit and to take the responsibility to set him on the right path.

I have often told this story to people who have had friends being selfish and unpleasant and I have said the personal responsibility you have to someone who has been a friend is to tell someone that their behaviour is upsetting you - it's an act of love to help them in this way. Almost everyone I know who's done it was just going to cut the other person out and in fact most have found that it has salvaged the friendship and the person who was told was grateful.

I am not saying that the OP owes this particular woman any bond of friendship, but I do think a phone call to say that her behaviour is unacceptable and she either needs to shape up or the group will be reforming without her is a kindness.

To close out my anecdote, I am still friends 40 years later with the cocky young lad and I married the friend who cared enough about someone else to engage in an unpleasant and awkward conversation. He is still the most decent and caring person I have ever met.

That’s a nice story, @WorkingItOutAsIGo (and good that you married the kind, interventionist chap!), but I think, as you say yourself, there is a big difference between an unusually immature teenager who was probably hiding his own insecurity about no longer effortlessly being the clever one by being obnoxious and a woman presumably well into adulthood whom the OP doesn’t appear to know particularly well or to have any particular reason to like.

I mean, I’d have no issue telling her myself, but as far as I can see, the issue here is less ‘Susan’s’ behaviour than the fact that everyone else involved, including the OP, is a wet lettuce who prefers to fume in silence than say ‘Give me back my swimsuit’ and ‘No, I’m not helping you up a mountain. Stay at home if you’re unwell.’

Get in touch with her EX friend and find out what happened. Everyone needs to ice her out. (She will state that this “aaaalways happens to her” because she is unable to be accountable

I’d use today to make a new thread! I’d suggest losing her and the person who invited her if she doesn’t bother coming any longer anyway

Just give the swimming costume back FFS.

That scenario is not equivalent at all. That’s a young person starting out in the world. This is a 50 plus woman.

My Dd did similar. A girl in her group was being left out of invites. Dd felt bad about it told her why (she made consistent put down snarky comments and reasonably enough the girls were getting sick of it). She was grateful but weirdly didn’t change her ways. She’s no longer in their group. So it’s not always as neat as that.

I really can sympathise with this.

Susan has joined the thread ie Anyone 😄. Why is there fault on both sides? No one else but her is problematic

If no one is going to talk to her direct about her manners and needing to contribute etc, I think the best advice is to post those rules someone suggested (maybe agree them with the rest beforehand).

I wouldn't dream of getting into it with such a mannerless person.

I couldn't give a damn if ghosting them is "mean".

I would be asking people directly to meet up separately, ask if they would like a new group and go from there.

I wouldn't hesitate to block her number.
Life is too short for pussy footing around such people.

@FierceForester90
The problem is everyone in your group sees her as a 'friend', albeit a difficult one, whereas she sees you all as her unpaid employees and thus feels able to order you all about.

Why else would she expect pick ups, drop offs, and now she's asking you all to help bodily lift her?!!

At this point you're all enabling this outrageous behaviour. Say no, and keep saying it.

It's so awkward when someone else makes an introduction then steps back out of it leaving the newcomer for everyone else to deal with. I'd be having words with the original friend that introduced her to the group and ask if she's always this difficult to deal with. And is she the reason that the original friend stepped back....

In an ideal world the bloody introducer would have the difficult conversation she created the issue in the first place. I’d be quite irked at her tbh.

Hilarious the initial friend has now peeled off from the group - is there not another local ramblers' society you can steer Susan towards yourself?!

I am not sure how much energy I'd put in trying to - effectively - reparent her by teaching her some manners.

Excellent post

Did you get a reply to your message in the end @FierceForester90 ?

If you care about her and want to stay friends then you could say, ‘you need to give back the things you borrowed, friendships are a two way street, I would also like a thank you sometimes’ If you are able to say that.

If you just want a quiet life then yes make a new group.

I do think you will feel better about it if you say what you need to say to her and give her a chance, either she will change or won’t but she has been give a chance and you will have no bad feelings.

Her type won't understand if you try to explain that she's being offensive. She will probably get the hump if/when you say something, and if you're lucky she'll leave the group.

But actually, I agree with PP, make a new group that excludes her: you're not a charity for people who don't know how to behave.

Hold on, I wouldn't consider this 'One flaw', this is her entire personality it seems. She's rude, entitled, demanding of people's time and resources, has usurped someone's swimming costume, never says please or thank you, doesn't contribute to driving costs, nor the driving itself... op says she was a nightmare on the trip away to the point where people don't want to go away with her anymore.

This is an established friendship group that people were kind enough to invite a relative stranger into, and this woman has now made the whole thing an ordeal for people.

This woman is exactly the sort of person you wouldn't want as a friend, nor the type that makes even casual social interactions enjoyable.

She's broken every friendship rule going, the most important of which is respect for others.

This is not just 'annoying' as you say, nor is it 'one flaw'.

She sent a very short response to the messages we sent about not going if she wasn't fully fit saying we were probabaly right. But off the side of that she had privately messaged one of the other group members asking for a lift!

"This is an established friendship group that people were kind enough to invite a relative stranger into, and this woman has now made the whole thing an ordeal for people." @Takenoprisoner

I do get what @AnyoneWhoHasAHeart is saying.

But this isn't a group of university friends that are just deciding to ghost someone after years with no comment. And it's very interesting that the original person who introduced her to the group seems to have ghosted them all!

Oh 😂 she’s got the hide of a rhino. I guess your best bet really would be to take a hard line (and get the others on side too, no weak links here!) with her tomfoolery and if she carries on then oust her altogether I guess. If you just all said no to lifts, what would happen?

This isn't entirely true, we didn't welcome her into the group. She was added to it by another member who did it without even mentioning she was doing it.

Its not just one flaw, its a long succession of regular issues which as most have quite rightly pointed out we should have addressed some time ago.

We have said no to lifts in the past and she does then drive herself there. But she never offers to drive anyone else!

@FierceForester90 I really cannot see any alternative here but making another group. I doubt she'll take any 'feedback' well and it doesn't sound like there are positives here that means when she is 'behaving' her company is enjoyable. Unless there is something you haven't mentioned.