To be absolutely fed up with a 'friend' in our group

[FierceForester90]

This is long sorry, but needed for context.

I am friends with a group of wonderful ladies who have all known each other for 6 years now, We met through a shared love of hiking and try to go every couple of weekends and also have a couple of overnight trips through the year.

We have a Whatsapp group to plan stuff - a couple of years ago one of our friends brought her friend 'Susan' to a hike and invited her to the Whatsapp. Since then the original lady has stepped back from joining us, but Susan has remained with us.

She is unfortunately quite a rude and difficult lady. She can drive, but doesn't - a group of us car share but she never offers and assumes she can have a lift without asking.

In the earlier days she came on a weekend away, she borrowed kit from others that she has still not returned, did not drive or offer any fuel money, and insisted that two separate people in the group called her before the trip to go through the weekends plan in great detail (I was over an house on the phone). She talks non stop and often speaks over other people.

In more recent times she has asked one of the group for a lift to a hike, when the person she asked wasn't well enough to do it herself, suggesting that she 'stayed warm in the car' while she went out with others. Last week an outing was arranged an her response was 'I'll tag along with XXX" no please, no thank you, no 'do you mind?'

She demands photos are taken of her but never offers to return the favour. She has in the past messaged people away from the main group saying how disappointed she is if she sees anyone has been out without her.

Susan is currently injured, and yesterday a message went into the group chat about going out tomorrow. Her response was 'I'll come but I need a lift and help to get up and down things'. No please, no thank you, no w'would anyone be OK o help me'.

We are at a point where some people just won't post plans in the chat anymore because of her behaviour and lack of manners. I'd love to just remove her from the group but it feels mean.

AIBU to feel that her behaviour is awful and just be totally fed up with it?

It’s not a male or female thing. It’s letting her know her behaviour is wrong so she can do something about it and not annoy them and/ or the next group.

I never knew I had an irritating habit until someone brave pointed it out.

I’m the admin in a WhatsApp group where one person was similarly annoying several members and someone wanted to remove her. Problem was she was now friends with a couple others in the group. She had also done nothing whatsoever to me so I felt bad removing her.

I just created a new WhatsApp group without her, using the excuse of limiting this group to what brought us together in the first place and keeping the other group for planning events for wider people.

Can you do that? Create a new group saying it’s for those who like to hike regularly and the other group can be kept for bigger group hike planning.

They’re all grown adults! I would expect a grown adult to have a conversation with this person to tell her how her behaviour affects others. Sliding off into another group is just bloody childish

Any one that knows her will know what’s she’s like and ignore social media comments that she might make.
People like that always show their true colours sooner or later and everyone around them sees them.

Exactly, start a new group called ‘Original Walkers’ start it with ‘Hello everyone, I thought I would start a chat with all of the walkers from when we first started so we can keep in touch and plan meets 🙂’.
They will be glad you did and you don’t need to say anything else other than that.

The problem is very few people can cope with sitting in the awkwardness that being up front and calling someone out brings!
You can only speak up for yourself, dont bring others into it. Just say no your not happy to do this. Let others do what they want, if they see you sticking up for yourself they may follow.

Also it is very common in groups when bad behaviour is called out that it is the messenger becomes the problem not the person behaving badly especially if they are prone to manipulating others which clearly this person has demonstrated the capacity for.

What is mean is not telling her OP and then everyone moaning about her behaviour.

You have a few options.

1 Pin group rules. Personally though o wouldn’t put the bit about everyone chatting. It does sound as though everyone has been chatting about her.

2 Put a message in the group as suggested above along the lines of not being comfortable with the idea of helping her and risking injury to yourself and it would probably be better if she resumed when she was better.

3 Removing Susan and her friend from the group.

4 Starting a new group without her.

I think I’d go with one and two together.

Also this isn’t a young woman here - she’s not going to change her whole personality once her entitled ways are pointed out to her is she?

Maybe not but it might bring the whole thing to a head? Ideally, she flounces out the group and the original hikers remain.

OP, you aren’t obliged to spend your spare time with someone you don’t like and have to “manage”.

Life’s too short to spend any of it with people you don’t like. If you’re inwardly seething every time you go on a hike then it’s going to spoil your enjoyment.

In an ideal world, if the rest of you all feel the same, you’d dump her out of the group and tell her why.

But I can see why you wouldn’t want to do this. So set up a group without her and her friend, and fade the original group out.

Before you do that though, the person who she borrowed the stuff off should give her the next lift and tell her she’ll pick up the stuff from her at the same time. Then when she arrives to pick her up, tell her she’ll wait while she gets the stuff for her.

It’s difficult though, it’s easier and socially acceptable to end a romantic relationship, but much harder with a “friendship”.

I totally get this but not everyone has siblings and/or relatives

This isn’t an official ‘group’ with membership and rules - it’s simply a group of friends arranging to meet up regularly. Just because she’s on a ‘group chat’ you don’t have to keep hanging out with someone who is a PITA. Whilst on the one hand yes it’s objectively a bit ‘mean’ to drop someone for the behaviour without giving them a chance to address it by telling them what the issue is, but on the other hand if you just happened to meet this person and would no doubt decide they’re not for you, you wouldn’t then continue hanging out with them. So just because your former hiking friend added them to this group chat, you don’t have to continue hanging out with this person in perpetuity - if they hadn’t been added to a group chat you wouldn’t have arranged subsequent meet ups with them. You don’t actually owe this person anything - just start a new watsap group chat without either of these people - no announcement, just casually start a new chat with the women who are actually your friends and arrange the next hike. Ok I know it’s kind of stone cold, but life really is too short to have hassle and spend your free time with someone you’re not actually friends with. We have to do enough of that at work!

Why? Why invite her at all? Ever?

Because you’re not me.

Exactly. Rather just be left alone x

What does she bring to the friendship group and hiking group?

if nothing positive cut her out, either by telling her or just remove her from the planning WhatsApp group.

I'd be getting in there first with asking for favours everytime. Susan, will you drive us this weekend? Susan, could you lend me x? Susan, can you be my physical crutch? Keep putting her in a situation where she's saying no. You won't feel half as bad about saying no after. Turn the tables, she'll learn fairly quickly.

Sending a passive aggressive ‘rules’ post is pretty lame and just kicks the can down the road, she know what she’s doing, just doesn't care. I’d go with organising stuff with the members of the group you enjoy the company of, phasing her right out, or setting up a new group without her in. Or just be blunt and say something, as so many on her advocate for - though I think in real life most people would choose the more avoidant option that result in less social confrontation.

I find this post interesting.

We regularly have threads on here from posters who have suddenly been ghosted by their friendship group, where they’ve found out the whole group organised an event and they weren’t invited, have set up a WhatsApp group without them, and the response is almost unanimously that “they’re not your friends. They’re all bitches and you’re better off without them.”

And yet here we have the friendship group’s perspective and likely those same posters are actively encouraging the OP to dump this woman on mass because she’s clearly the one in the wrong.

At the end of the day there is no way to dump this woman which isn’t going to be hurtful.

Maybe she is annoying, but has anyone told her that?

If people have been giving in to her for years does she know?

She was welcomed into a friendship group and now the group is turning on her being spurred on by the same women on the internet who would be telling this same woman that her friends are horrible.

Ultimately female friendship groups generally don’t work.

Far too much cattiness, bitching, being generally petty and exclusionary and yes, bullying.

The woman may have one flaw, and that has seen her ostracised seemingly without explanation.

There is fault on both sides, but the worst fault lies with the OP and her coven of mates who are too gutless to own their dislike of this woman.

Yes, she sounds highly entitled, but not ASD to me.

In fact a preoccupation with 'fairness' is an Autistic trait. It's literally in the diagnostic test. ASD women in particular can be overly concerned with reciprocity, so they are more likely to be overly generous than miserly. ASD adults are not good at being manipulative, we're far too blunt - and it takes a high level of social nuance to manipulate. Also as manners are part of the social code that high functioning ASD people can learn, we tend to use them!

She sounds highly entitled. Try being firm. It might work? And if she doesn't like not getting everything her own way, well she might leave, which is better than ghosting her.

she wasn’t really welcomed into the group. She was added by someone without much discussion.
And as it’s an informal group there was no vote for admittance like there may be at many more formal groups.

there was no selection process for this person. Similarly, I’d expect a book group of strangers to let me know if I wasn’t playing by their informal rules (contribute, respect all opinions, read the book, attend most meetings per year)

OFGS.

Mean?

She is being very rude and ruining the group.

She deserves mean.

Tell her. If she apologises and does better then give her a chance. If she doesn't, start a new group

Another example of the be nice conditioning. Just tell her she’s rude and a pita and she’s not welcome, remove from group.

What utter garbage.

Firstly this woman wasnt "welcomed by the whole group", she was randomly added by a person in the group who no longer even speaks to her (I wonder why?!) or even attends the group.

Secondly it's not that she has one "flaw"- she's generally highly unpleasant person. This woman has not returned property that belongs to someone else which is essentially, stealing. She talks over people and makes everything all about her. She is mean, doesnt ever reciprocate lifts or offer to contribute towards petrol costs. She expects everyone to do whatever and whenever she wants regardless of how inconvenient it is to them.

Thirdly, noone has ostracised her (although she flipping deserves it) because everyone is apparently too scared that this woman will lash out and attack them on social media.

This woman is selfish and vile and she should not have joined a social group if she can't treat others in it with the consideration and respect that they deserve. If she is chucked out of the group she is merely reaping the consequences of her offensive behaviour.