When are the 70s Rock Stars going to be held to account

[Imanexcellentdrivercharliebabbit]

So in view of Operation Yew Tree with Saville and the ‘Dogdy DJ’s’, Entertainers;
Andrew Mount Batton; Epstein Island/Al-Fayed trafficking scandals/grooming gangs..etc etc
is it unreasonable to think that at some point the rock star mega stars will be next (and need to be )
the whole phenomena of the ‘baby groupie’ ( 13/24/15 year old children in relationships as well as being passed around -let alone young fans queuing up to offer sexual favours to the stars 2/3/4 times their age ) is well documented in biographies/memoirs/interviews of both these young girls retrospectively and the stars at the time- Led Zeppelin /Rolling Stones/Bowie /Red Hot Chilli Peppers/ John Peel and so so many more

i wonder if the shit will hit the fan for these ageing rockers who lived like sex gods in the 70s/80s and thought they could have on tap sex //coercive relationships with ‘willing fans‘/ children back in the day

if you go down the rabbit hole and see how appalling some of our most beloved rock stars behaved (in modern terms -groomers/rapists as children cannot consent ) unbelievable and at some point this will come to a head

If I remember correctly, Mandy’s mother later married Bill’s son…

Really, you don't think a power imbalance in a relationship is anything to be concerned about? I never said that consenting adults shouldn't be allowed to marry much younger or older adults if they truly want to, but I wonder what ever would make them want to do so.

Obviously the serious point is the disgusting men going after underage girls, however much those girls think they can give their fully-informed consent. However, the discussion has gone on to include the whole culture of relationships with extreme age-gaps and power imbalances, albeit between two adults.

I was indeed going to mention the other side of the coin: the younger women marrying much older men; but I felt like I was rambling off-topic and deleted it. In any case, as you say it yourself, they're marrying rich older men; for some reason, they never seem to be attracted to Fred who works on the tills at Tesco to supplement his state pension and to be able to afford to put the heating on and buy the odd little luxury.

A power imbalance is still a power imbalance, even if somebody consents to it. Sex workers technically consent to men using them for all manner of degrading, dehumanising activities, but how many of them would do it of their own absolute freewill if they happened to be financially well-off?

Indeed, even back to the earlier point, how many young female stars who have earned themselves millions also seek to marry much older men who are similarly wealthy, when it wouldn't make any material difference to their own already high standard of living?

So people who were raped as children, don't deserve justice because it was 'years ago' and so now a witch hunt (you know, just like innocent women who were tortured and murdered based on nothing but baseless lies)? My dad will be pleased to hear that him abusing me when I was a child was no big deal because it was in the 80s.

The person who has the most power in any relationship is the one who needs the other the least and this can fluctuate between the two people throughout a relationship, anyway.

Example: A woman can be deeply in love with a man who is indifferent to her but they still have sex, he's the one with the power.
She accidentally gets pregnant. To his surprise, he finds he loves being a father and family man and wants to try hard to make it work but she's not that bothered about being in a family unit.
Who's got the power now?
This, in case you hadn't guessed, is a real life example.

It doesn't matter who has the most power in and of itself "unless the one with more power uses it to abuse the other person.

To say that a 'power imbalance' is inherently a negative thing is incorrect.

But then look at how Brittany spears sold herself dressed as a schoolgirl in her first big hit ! And she was droooled over !

I strongly suspect it wasn't Britney's idea to 'sell herself as a schoolgirl'. You only have to look at her Instagram account to see how damaged she is.

I suspect this poster has issues that can’t be reasoned with.
If my 17 year old daughter, over the age of uk consent, came home and said she was having sex with a wealthy, powerful and older man with a history of only dating women under the age of a developed brain, I’d be devastated. As would most mothers. You can’t reason with deluded. I stopped trying.

Ah, but this is MN. Men marrying younger, more fertile women, as per their biological programming, are abusive, perverted narcissists. Younger women who marry older, wealthy men aren’t lazy and materialistic, they’re striking a blow against the patriarchy or something.

There's a massive failure of logic there.

Of course it should all be investigated and prosecuted.

Correct

Prosecutor “Are you Ronnie Pickering, born 1948, former drummer with 70’s glam rock band ‘Creme Brûlée’, currently living in the ‘Twilight of our Lives’ retirement home, Morecambe?”

Ronnie “I think so”

Prosecutor “It is alleged you had fellatio from Maureen Snodgrass, at an unknown date in 1972, in the car park of the Bradford Alhambra”

Ronnie “I’ve been to Bradford?”

Prosecutor “Yes. Mrs Snodgrass, a great grandmother, alleges the incident happened while she was intoxicated”

Ronnie “I’ve never had a blow job off a grandmother!”

Prosecutor “No Mr Pickering, she was 14 at the time”

Ronnie “14! Why wasn’t she at home? My grand daughter is 14. I wouldn’t have sex with a 14 year old!”

Prosecutor “Mrs Snodgrass says she was pretending to be 18 by smoking and drinking rum and black”

Ronnie “Jesus Christ”

Prosecutor “Did you or did you not get blown by Maureen in the car park?”

Ronnie “I’m an alcoholic, I can’t remember what happened 54 years ago!”

Justice Edmund Fosbury-Flop “Can we see some evidence?”

Prosecutor “There is no evidence, it’s hearsay”

Justice Edmund Fosbury-Flop “Get out!”

The poster said. 19, not 17.

You may think a person of 19 is not an adult, but I think that they are.

Massive difference between 17 and 19
I Think most people know that

Many parents didn't have a clue what their children were up to in those days. No phones and a very relaxed attitude left a lot of children at risk. It wasn't at all unusual or considered neglectful.

I agree.

I remember the 70s and 80s very well. The morality was very different.
The Pill had arrived and consequently women and girls were freed from pregnancy. 'Sex is natural' was the rallying cry, and having sexual intercourse was politically correct (though that phrase didn't come into being until the early 80s) . And though it was illegal for under 16s, many people did. And no one really cared. On the contrary, young girls who had lovers were admired and considered mature. It was the time of sex, drugs and rock n' roll.

And OP, your sister climbed through the window and went to this pop star. gave two blow jobs and had sex. He didn't lock her in a room and refuse to let her out until she had done his demands. He didn't climb into her window and force her to give him 2 blow jobs and sex. The sex was consensual. 'Children of 13 can't give consent ' - of course they can. It's the rallying cry of today. Your sister did! And 'a few months short of her 14th birthday' she was capable of giving a grown, unknown man blow jobs and PIV.

Your sister's experience, and all the other baby groupies have NOTHING to do with grooming gangs, and trafficked women.

Where did you get the impression that it was 100% consensual?
I got the opposite impression - that an adult male "took advantage" of a naive 14-year old girl.

Also, the men would immediately know if they were having intercourse with a virgin.

I find it quite difficult to grapple with the way things have changed and judging the past by our standards today is difficult to do.

When I was a schoolgirl in the 90s it was considered quite cool while doing GCSEs to have a much older adult boyfriend who would pick you up from school, take you out in his car, get you into clubs you couldn't otherwise get into. If someone had told these girls that they were children who couldn't consent and were being trafficked or coerced that would have been seen as ridiculously prudish and overprotective. TV shows had these too, like Buffy dating Angel or Pacey in Dawson's Creek with his teacher. Heartbreak High and 90210 had these storylines too. I didn't grow up watching UK shows but it seems like this was a staple of UK soaps: https://www.whattowatch.com/news/blog/mind-age-gap-10-ill-matched-soap-couples-462917

But then, my parents were telling stories about their maths teacher in the 1970s who had an affair with one of his students and they got married right after she graduated high school, or the girl they knew who ran off to Woodstock and got pregnant age 15. Neither of which was considered to be anything other than something to gossip about - the idea that the police might be involved would have been outlandish.

You are totally missing the point that by their very nature most rock bands consist of young immature men high on life (and many other things). The idea of most of them sitting a 15 year old down with a cup of tea in a safe space is totally laughable.

Jimmy page and Robert plant were not teenagers or even close in the late seventies

And why does everyone ignore the abusive - it’s well documented that girls were picked out of crowds at the request of the band and then put in situations a lot probably had no idea how to deal with.

I’m not missing anything at all.
I’m saying they should show more restraint and not fuck girls just because it’s offered to them.

I think that’s a fairly basic thing to expect, back then and now.

The age of consent in the US varies by state. In over three-fourths of states, it’s either 16 or 17.

(Making a factual correction here, not a moral argument.)

I don't think you understand hormones!

That’s the thing, though, both are perfectly plausible. It’s also perfectly plausible that she wasn’t a virgin.

I don’t understand what you mean.

This thread is wild. Never did i think I would read on MN that a 13 year old can consent to sex with a man a decade older.

Really?