When are the 70s Rock Stars going to be held to account

[Imanexcellentdrivercharliebabbit]

So in view of Operation Yew Tree with Saville and the ‘Dogdy DJ’s’, Entertainers;
Andrew Mount Batton; Epstein Island/Al-Fayed trafficking scandals/grooming gangs..etc etc
is it unreasonable to think that at some point the rock star mega stars will be next (and need to be )
the whole phenomena of the ‘baby groupie’ ( 13/24/15 year old children in relationships as well as being passed around -let alone young fans queuing up to offer sexual favours to the stars 2/3/4 times their age ) is well documented in biographies/memoirs/interviews of both these young girls retrospectively and the stars at the time- Led Zeppelin /Rolling Stones/Bowie /Red Hot Chilli Peppers/ John Peel and so so many more

i wonder if the shit will hit the fan for these ageing rockers who lived like sex gods in the 70s/80s and thought they could have on tap sex //coercive relationships with ‘willing fans‘/ children back in the day

if you go down the rabbit hole and see how appalling some of our most beloved rock stars behaved (in modern terms -groomers/rapists as children cannot consent ) unbelievable and at some point this will come to a head

Nothing will happen because to investigate the oli e need the women involved to make a complaint and give evidence. Some did and there have been some high profile prosecutions, but most likely the women who slept with the remaining rock stars involved do not want to make a complaint.

We have a far bigger problem that hasn't been addressed. As little girls in the 80s and 90s my sister and I were absolutely focused on male approval and attention, our whole environment was all about male approval of little girls.

From about 12, we wanted boyfriends, absolutely desperate for the approval of older boys. What we didn't want was sex, but obviously that was the situation we found ourselves in.

My first BF when I was 12 was the 15yo son of my teacher. It got to the point he thought we were going to have sex, so I begged his sister to tell their mum (my teacher) and she said "you can't stop young people having sex" - luckily I had the wherewithal to run out of the house when it came to it. I was not able to express myself verbally.

My dad apparently used exactly the same phrase when my mum expressed concerns about boys being in our bedrooms.

I don't think it was necessarily those boys fault (other than being utterly selfish and totally uncurious).

Different standards apply for adult men/rock stars, but those girls would have felt the same. Desperately trying to appear older to win the attention and love. I think sex was always an unfortunate by product for the girls involved.

There was/is a complete lack of understanding of female sexuality (and how late it usually is that it translates into a genuine desire for penetrative sex). There is still an encouragement/environment of even very little girls dressing for the male gaze and playing up to male approval.

I think maybe the tide has turned slightly with the adoration of male musicians, who are often extremely boring inadequate men under the hair.

The absolute nightmare that the 'free love' era was for girl children has a lot to answer for. However, we are not doing very much better now.

There is a total disregard and disrespect of women and girls in the UK and no recognition of bodily autonomy, combined with no meaningful structure for safeguarding. I always note the confused look in the mugshots of the sexual offenders from outside the UK, who find that they have stepped outside the law.

We have such a long way to go. The outrage at Epstein, when maybe 1 in 50 men (stab in the dark) is an Epstein without the funds.

I agree with this. ‘Groupies’ were known for pursuing groups, sometimes going to extreme lengths to obtain access, to have sex with them.

There was no reason in those times for the men freely offered sex to refuse. Sadly the culture then put all the ‘blame’ on the girls/ women.

By today’s standards, with much more emphasis put on consent ( rightly so) and the legal position that under 16’s cannot consent this behaviour is wholly unacceptable.

It is, however, still the case that even now girls under the age of 16 are having sex with their boyfriends. Are all of those boys going to be subject to investigation at a later date?

I remember reading an article about the Manic Street Preacher groupies and the was in an issue of Select. Prob went on until quite recently.

It would be a nightmare to prosecute these offences. I'd imagine that the only evidence remaining is eye witness evidence, and many of the security guards etc who might have seen things could quite easily have their silence bought. Add in the amount of drugs and alcohol that there would have been on the scene, and it would be easy enough for a competent defence counsel to cast a lot of doubt on allegations.

To be clear I'm not saying any of what happened was right or OK, I'm just saying it would be very hard to prove to the criminal standard in a court, even if there was public appetite to prosecute.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/sep/13/look-away-review-horrifying-stories-of-abuse-at-the-hands-of-male-rock-stars I watched this recently about aerosmith

OP, how does your sister feel about this as an adult- would she go to the police?

It sounds as if it was 100% consensual, and the men in question could just say she lied about her age.

I’m not saying it would be easy, but it’s not impossible and much would depend on how many other victims are willing to come forward.
If I was one of these rock icons I would be increasingly worried.

It can’t be consensual if she was 13/14.

Just about to say these two. He married her to save himself
"Mandy Smith and former Rolling Stones bassist Bill Wyman made headlines in the 1980s due to their controversial relationship, which began when she was 13 and he was 47. They married in 1989 when she was 18 but divorced in 1993"

There's no question that she actively pursued the men, to the extent of climbing through a window to reach them. Again, can it reasonably be proved, 48 years on, that they knew she was below the age of 16? Or that they even met?

Great post. I certainly did not want sex in my early teens, I wanted romance, as portrayed in the pages of Jackie magazine. Girls wanting sex at that age has been normalised though. You see it here on Mumsnet where nobody bats an eyelid at 14 year olds having sex.

My kids can’t get their head around dating someone not of a similar age. When I was at school it was considered and even encouraged by magazines and society for women to date older men. They were considered
more mature and better marriage prospects and im
not that old either. My teens are agast at this.

go back even further and it’s normal
for 17/18 year olds to be married
off to 38 year old. Mr Darcy for example. Look at the couples in Bridgerton. Large age gaps a plenty.

it’s totally different if it’s coerced or worse of course but it really was a different social time.

I think the issue is that she was not pursuing sex, she was pursuing the attention/love/approval.

There is still a real lack of understanding of this. It is interesting that we now have a term for Para-Social Relationships and hopefully we can extend this to start to understand how young girls have willingly put themselves in dangerous situations.

Exactly, and there is always the posters telling the op who posts in concern about their 14 yo and sex “you need to get in the modern world! isn’t it better she’s doing it in her bedroom in your nice house?” And in one thread I saw “couldn’t you and dh go out for the evening and give them privacy?!”

If a groupie went out with the intention of pursuing the band - and wanting sex with whoever would agree - why is that the man’s fault ?
Plenty of teenage girls choose to have sex , because they want to , not because they are pressured to .

I’m so glad you are somehow immune from being rape/coerced/groomed because of your amazing strength of character. Those other vulnerable girls just weren’t trying hard enough. 🙄

Going after 70s stars suggests that this doesn’t happen any more but what about going after the men doing it now? I’m willing to bet that it’s not just musicians and other entertainers like actors, internet personalities etc are taking advantage.

That may very well be the case. But the issue is whether a crime was committed (it was, although it's debatable whether the men truly believed or understood she was underage) and whether there is a realistic prospect of prosecution now (there isn't).

Half of them have boasted about it themselves in books and interviews.

This would only be addressed if women came forward stating that they were cohorced, abused and so on.

Yes it was grim that famous men took advantaged of star-strucked teenage girls and boys but at the same time they could argue that the "groupies" were willingly chasing them and that they were not ill treated.

It was a different world and this is a very different scenario than Jimmy Savile.

So I would support anyone coming out to tell their stories if they feel they were abused but I can see how it would be a difficult one to argue in court for example.

I always react very strongly to those ppsts and explain the lifelong sexual trauma I have from sex as a young teen. It is not usually welcomed.

If you read about how a lot of the groupies were treated (over and under age) there was clear abuse. Some of it in the men’s own words

of course there won’t be prosecutions but there should be a recognition that it was wrong and it is wrong - otherwise these men will just keep on thinking they get a free pass because of their celebrity

https://axs.tv/news-story/steven-tyler-sexual-abuse-trial-moves-forward-what-the-julia-misley-ruling-means-for-the-aerosmith-frontman/

Looks like Tyler will be in court by Christmas