To cancel holiday with friend after what I found out?

[BrainyKraken]

My DS is 14 and I'm a single mum, I have a close friend and he has a DD the same age. Her mum passed away when she was younger so i’d like to think I'm a good female role model. The DC get along well and we go on holiday all together once or twice a year.

A few weeks ago in the wash there was a piece of condom wrapper that had been washed, I asked DS and straight away I got “it isn't mine” I told him it isn't mine either and it can't be the cats and he then admitted it was his but he wasn't having sex with anyone he got them from school in a sex ed class. I believed him and I think I still do

However the thing that changes things is I found out yesterday that he is dating my friends DD, I found out by accident when looking through his phone I saw messages come through which suggested they were more than friends and DS confirmed it. We had a holiday planned at easter with them and I've told DS we cant go now and he got quite annoyed and said this is why he didn't want me to know because now they won't be treated normally. He's told me not to tell her dad, I told him I feel like he should know especially as he will want to know to reason for cancelling

WWYD? Cancel? If so tell friend the truth or? Any advice appreciated

Well no-one’s going to disagree with that - but some kids, who know they can trust their parents, choose not to tell them nonetheless.

If they can be together while on holiday then they can definitely be together while not on holiday. I would go, I would tell the Dad and I would keep a close eye.

You should still go. He may have tried it on and been too embarrassed to tell you 🤷‍♀️ But isn’t it better that he practices in private so that when the time comes, he’s confident and no rips occur. Especially small ones that could go unnoticed…

Our local safeguarding board states:

The age of consent or the legal age to have sex in the UK is 16. The laws are there to protect children and not to prosecute under 16s who have mutually consenting sexual activity. Any sort of sexual contact without consent is illegal, regardless of the age of those involved. Children under 13 cannot legally consent to any type of sexual activity.

The point is whether sexual activity is consensual- and I am not sure why only OP’s son could be prosecuted?

I wouldn't agree to go on the holiday unless it was in an above board fashion and your mutual children were open about the fact that they are dating. That would be a crappy thing to do to your friend.

Illicit relationships are often more attractive for that very reason so the cold light of day may also make it less appealing than sneaking around being "romantic"

I would have thought that having "the talk" on holidays re consequences of unwanted pregnancy irrespective of whether you think they are sleeping together would also be a bit of wake up call.

Her dad absolutely needs to know @BrainyKraken This is not a childish thing like a dare to skip afternoon school that you might turn a blind eye to one time.

These children are playing condom roulette with a pregnancy risk.
There must be several places the two of them can go for guidence and contraceptive advice, like Doctors surgery or local clinic.

I am not a cool mum and find 14 years old to be very young. But see that the Genie can't be put back in the bottle.
If a friend of mine condoned and enabled my 14 year old child in a sexual relationship by keeping it secret, I would be furious with that 'so called' friend.

Lots of people assuming the kids are having sex based on a bit of condom wrapped in the laundry. did I miss something?

of course the dad needs to know but unless I missed a post there is no confirmation that they were having sex.

OP I wonder if you feel it’s a bit incestuous because you have been a female role model to the girl and your friend has been an uncle like figure to your DS. But it’s not incestuous is it? What is your relationship to the girl’s father?

Written for teens https://lawstuff.org.uk/sex-health-drugs/age-of-consent/.

When we went out for the evening leaving my DD at home, aged 15, with a boy aged 15 who wasn't quite a boyfriend and wasn't quite a platonic friend, I said to both of them, injecting levity: 'Some things are not legal until you are 16. If you do those things at 15, you will be breaking the law and I will report you to the police'.

I did not delude myself and knew they would do what they liked, as anyone would at their age, but being a bit outrageous and embarrassing is better in my book than being furtive and evasive.

What do you imagine the police would have done?

you are being very prudish about teenage sex so I thought you are an American

Although my threat to call the police was not an idle one, I didn't give any serious thought to what they would have done. Thinking about it now, I imagine nothing or separate chats with DD and the boy. Certainly not a prosecution.

I said son because I was addressing the OP and it's her child, who happens to be the son. I've said on other messages on this thread that both of them are committing a criminal offence. No sexism here - you can stand down, soldier! 🤭😄

Although both are committing a criminal offence, it's very unlikely either of them will be charged for statutory rape, although they could be, in theory. Children under 16 cannot consent to sex, which is why it's still statutory rape even if both consent. They're both rapists, technically.

Of course that's ridiculous, but the real issue is that each is leaving themselves open to accusations of statutory rape if sour grapes occur. Not to mention the fact that the adults are leaving themselves open to Social Services involvement if they are seen to be allowing these two children to have sex and doing nothing to stop it. Imagine they go to a GP for the Pill. They could report the parents if the kids say that the parents know about it.

So no, the children won't be thrown in jail, but there's absolutely potential for hassle due to the AOC. Honestly, who needs it? Just tell these two that they are breaking the law and they are too young. Ground them. They've lost their privileges.

This is child sex, since they are WELL under the age of consent. Teenage sex is 16-19.

They are children, so the parents are obliged to stuff that genie back in the bottle or face safeguarding checks from Social Services if they find out.

And I agree - I would be furious at the friend under the circs you imagine. Actually, OP would be out of luck with me altogether, because if I had a DD who was 14 and I found out that her boy had penetrated my sweet, innocent child and exposed her to pregnancy and depression and cervical cancer and emotions well beyond the scope of her years, I would raise the fucking roof, to be honest.

The male has the active part, we all know how it works, and we all know that PIV feels significantly better for males than females. We all know that he's getting his most sensitive part thoroughly stimulated from all sides which is the precise reason he's guaranteed an orgasm, whereas her relevant nerve centre is some way from the action and her orgasm is VERY FAR FROM GUARANTEED. PIV is NOT equal the vast majority of the time, and I do so wish that society would stop pretending that PIV is this marvellously equal experience for both sexes. It CAN be, but when it's between adults and usually when the parties are experienced and when the female speaks up for her pleasure. Not for nothing is the common female reaction "Is that it?" after losing their virginity, whereas the man feels like he's glimpsed heaven. So I do blame the boy more, actually. He had far, far more to gain than her, especially from penetrating a child, since I highly doubt that he has the faintest idea how to make it good for her. On the other hand, all he has to do to get off is stick it in. These are the biological and mechanical facts that, for some reason, we don't like to admit. And then she's left with the worry of pregnancy and hoping her period shows up. Just what evert 14-year-old girl should be focussed on!! Yeah, I would go mental if I was her dad.

If they’re already having sex they’re going to do that whether they’re on holiday or not

OP, you’re neither minimising nor over reacting. Be concerned, talk to him about how sex at his age is both inappropriate and very risky, let them enjoy the holiday but keep an incredibly close eye on them.

Of course it’s not ok.

But telling the dad is breaking the son’s trust. She’ll regret that forever if she does it.

Don't cancel the holiday.

Have a serious talk with DS about sex, consent and the age of consent. Include talking about statutory rape in very black & white terms - someone who is under the age of consent is not considered capable of making a free decision to consent and therefore anyone who has sex with them is committing rape even if the young person is appearing to consent. If they are convinced that they will wait till they are older before they start shagging then it's fine to still holiday together.

Breaking her son's trust? He's broken the law by committing a criminal offence! So has she, except he had a much better time than her with far fewer potential consequences.

I think the last sentence is the key to this whole dilemma

Most Americans are lovely. Almost 70% of the electorate did NOT vote for Trump. And I'm sure far fewer than 30% of the electorate would have voted for him had they known what he would do. His approval ratings tumbled after ICE started, tumbled again after the two murders by ICE, and have fallen again after Venezuela, Greenland, and now Iran. He ran on a promise to focus resources on America and not abroad.

I know there's a contingent of crazy far-right Americans, but most aren't.

It would be sexual activity with a child which both of them are culpable of
And it wouldn't be in the public interest to prosecute either of them

The lawe exists to protect vulnerable minors from being exploited by adults not to punish two 14 years from having consensual sex.

They are both children ,she's the older child ,stop trying to twist things
You have nonidea of the facts .

They're both 14, I thought the OP said.

Twist things? You think they're not having sex? If so, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

As I explained up thread, it's not a dichotomy between jail or no consequences. There are grey areas. The legal situation puts the parents and each child in positions where they could face a lot of censure from various authorities.

ETA. I wrote:

Although both are committing a criminal offence, it's very unlikely either of them will be charged for statutory rape, although they could be, in theory. Children under 16 cannot consent to sex, which is why it's still statutory rape even if both consent. They're both rapists, technically.

Of course that's ridiculous, but the real issue is that each is leaving themselves open to accusations of statutory rape from the other if sour grapes occur. Not to mention the fact that the adults are leaving themselves open to Social Services involvement if they are seen to be allowing these two children to have sex and doing nothing to stop it. Imagine they go to a GP for the Pill. They could report the parents if the kids say that the parents know about it, as it's a safeguarding issue.

So no, the children won't be thrown in jail, but there's absolutely potential for hassle due to the AOC. Honestly, who needs it? Just tell these two that they are breaking the law and they are too young. Ground them. They've lost their privileges.