Cat versus human a&e

[catmummy22]

My cat was a bit poorly last night so I took her to the out of hours cat hospital. I called them at 8 pm and within 1 hour, I had booked the appointment, had her checked over and was back home.
My friend’s mother also took a turn for the worse last night. They drive to a&e at the same time as I went with my cat, but had to wait to be seen until 4 am. Suspected heart issue so quite serious.

I paid 350 pounds for my cat to be seen. I have pet insurance. I really wish I could pay £350 to be seen if I needed a&e too. I rather pay that than wait a. Ight to be seen.

My AIBU is in the different health care offered to pets versus humans in this country. As a human you can’t even pay your way to be seen in an emergency. Brits seem to think as long as it’s free, it’s good, but is it time to start thinking about charging in the NHS too? I think so!

I inferred from your OP "I really wish I could pay £350 to be seen if I needed a&e too. I rather pay that than wait a. Ight to be seen."My apologies If this is not what you meant, but logic would suggest that if you paid to be seen without waiting, someone else is going to have to wait longer.

I am not denying changes are required, but I don't believe a private funding model is what is required. And wouldn't work in A&E anyway.

Getting an emergency vet appt costs. Unless you have private health, are on top lost of NHS triage then this is reality.

I think those can pay and I think that’s a lot of people should pay a charge. I already said in my home country I would pay £50 to be seen I a&e. That’s the price of a take away. I know some people cannot afford that, but don’t hide behind that small percentage.

Just look at what happened to dentistry, if you think having to go private is best.

If the system currently in place for cats was in place for humans:

• the wealthiest 10% would get truly excellent, world class care, hardly any waiting, minimal fuss. The premiums would be steep but these people can afford it
• the next 10% would get decent care. Not quite at the gold standard but most things covered. Every so often you'd hear of a difficult situation where a family had to make the heartbreaking decision to have Aunty Maud PTS because although a treatment for her condition exists, it's excluded by the conditions of their insurance as they have a basic policy
• the next 30% woukd have very limited health insurance where only the first set amount of health costs in any year are covered so while illnesses that are cheap to treat are fine, most serious illnesses aren't.
• The remaining 50% would have no direct access to health care at all and would rely on charities if they got seriously ill, or woukd just commit suicide in order to be the keast possible bother.
• for all, the quality of care and your chance of survival is determined not by doctors prioritising the people with greatest need, but instead based on ability to pay.

Personally I believe that for humans Illness is neither an indulgence for which people have to pay, nor an offence for which they should be penalised, but a misfortune, the cost of which should be shared by the community. Meanwhile taking responsibility for the welfare of a cat is entirely optional and those who can't afford to do it well are not obliged to do it at all, so the situations are not comparable.

This is the second version we've had of this story in as many days. It's almost as if someone has an agenda...

There are private emergency departments in England for all but the most serious conditions. I have gone to St John and St Elizabeth in St John's Wood over the years for several miscarriages, a broken leg, and several other things. Insurance does not pay for the initial consultation (was £100, now possibly more), but (BUPA at least) pays for further investigations/procedures.

In Ireland you pay for HSE A&E if you have not been referred by a GP. It's about €100 currently I believe (paid that in 2021 for reduction of wrist fracture).

I noticed that too. It was a cat in the previous thread as well.

Well “British teeth” is a saying in Europe, so not keen on NHS dentistry myself. Again, I go private.

The NHS is collapsing under its own weight

Think back to its inception and the ailments it was expected to treat then to now, how far we have come, what we all want - and add an aging population

I worked for the NHS 1984 to 2000, and it was back then that treatments were being limited

Mum died Sunday, in an NHS hospital. Yes she sat in A&E for 5 hours before being called forward. She was shown to a bay and a bed - not a trolly. Yes she was there for 18 hours but whilst there they did the initial investigations

From there they transferred her to a hospital more suited to her care

She spent 2 days short of a month in hospital, She was treated like a queen, Nothing was too much . After 10 days we agreed pain relief and dignity, and believe me, that's how she was treated to the very end - I sat with her for her last 48hrs, so I saw first hand

Yes the place was chaotic at times , yes it was hard to find someone who was going to sit and explain , yes sometimes things were lost in translation.

But mum was well cared for and I do believe she had a great time for her first 3 weeks being on a ward of women for company and a lot of nurses and care assistants checking in with her

She was kept clean, tidy and comfortable. Even her last day, the nurses knew and didn't subject her to anything other then comfort need

For the NHS to survive it has to withdraw treatment for more problems . Mum had to turn to private care for her eyes, for her knees etc and we are looking to fund an op for DP. Its not life threatening, and it probably wouldn't have been a problem 20 years ago as he would have been retired and not having to still be working at 64

The NHS is just overwhelmed with an aging population and too many answers for too many ailments

I don’t know the other thread. I am not on MN at all times nor is my cat.

Because there’s more humans than there are cats

HTH

All EU countries have an aging population. It’s not just a British thing.
Cameron started the rot with the NHS and only by increasing staff and beds will things improve, that will need a huge amount of money.

And devil take the poor, eh?
I wonder if you've thought this through. Should a worried middle class parent really be able to pay for poor darling Jonty's rash to be treated ahead of that oik with a broken hip?

We all pay for the NHS & if you genuinely think you should pay more for better healthcare, vote for Parties that will take more tax for the NHS. Economies of scale mean you'll always get less of a bang for your buck from private healthcare. On the question of A&E, running that dept & all the pathology, imaging, & supporting specialisms it requires isn't an outlay that for-profit "healthcare" wants. You must have noticed the paucity of private A&E depts, ditto ICUs.

If something goes very badly wrong during a private surgery, it's to the NHS's ICUs that the vast majority of patients go. Not only is there hardly anyprivate ICU provision at all but you need to be the kind of person who drops chump change on a detached property in Zone 1 to even contemplate the insurance premiums, or the bolt-on extras

Private healthcare won't cover your pre-existing conditions & few pet insurers do either. If Rover breaks his leg playing fetch, sure, most plans will cover his emergency care, but if Rover's diabetic & goes into diabetic ketoacidosis, suddenly you're on your own.

BTW, the waste of money in co-pay systems abroad is phenomenal.

Look up healthcare in European countries not US. I don’t understand why everyone think the US model is the only alternative to the NHS

I agree that the NHS is not working and a co-pay system would be better. In reality, I don't think it will solve anything in the UK. Look how many people are exempt from prescription charges in England - 60% or thereabouts, 90% of prescriptions are not paid for? There will be little money coming in and the burden will yet again fall on a minority.

Lifestyle choices such as drink, drugs, gambling, hoarding(!) are declared to be 'illnesses' and clutter up the system, too much of the NHS budget is wasted on those who choose to make these choices.

Well said. The NHS may not be perfect but it's accessible and there for everyone.
I literally don't know where I'd be without them this past year, they've literally been a lifesaver.
Could not disagree with you more about charging, people might be put off getting medical help if they think they can't afford it.
It's alright for the likes of yourself who can afford to drop 350 quid on your cat and 99 quid on yourself just like that, though. Screw everyone else, right?! 🙄

How do Scotland and Wales manage with no payments from prescriptions?

I didn't specify the US, I wasn't thinking of the US, two of the more wasteful nearby countries came to mind - France & Germany. Perhaps you assumed US because I used the term "co-pay".

Not everyone can afford to go private. Everyone should have access to healthcare, not just those rich enough to pay for it.

I'm not sure paying £50 for a visit would really solve the A&E problem .. does your DD? As you say, it's the cost of a take away and wouldn't cover the cost of an x-ray or a cannula, or the electric and cleaning on the A&E ward- let alone the staff costs.

I remind myself when I'm unfortunate enough to be at A&E (not that often !...) that a wait, even when unwell or in pain or discomfort, means that others are more in need- that triage is based on need. Bed availability is clearly a problem- so moving out of A&E into a ward is major issue. I do understand that sounds twee, but I seriously doubt chucking even £350 would cover the actual cost per person if providing the service that your cat got- which was not an admission (or even a load of tests...) but a check.

I haven’t said screw anyone at all. Plenty of people pay the same as I paid for my cat to get medical help on take aways and let’s not pretend they don’t. Hs is just supposed to be free, never mind it’s free but not delivering for most people trying to access it.

No one actively chooses to be addicts. Addiction is not a lifestyle choice. It is insidious and creeps up on you. Many people deny they are addicts because they are always different... it is something that happens to other people. By the time they are in full blown addiction, a lot of areas of their life are fucked, and also their health.
Why should they be denied treatment?

No one goes to A&E for hoarding. It is often a sign of deeper issues, mostly MH related.

yep that sounds like a society I want to live in, toddler with a seizure has to wait because the rich lady with a sore throat came in and wants to jump the queue. If you are waiting 10 hours in a&e, you probably don't need emergency care and could have been seen elsewhere (I know there are exceptions to this, I waited 12 hours to have a collapsed lung taken seriously, and that the system is not working well): but a&e is a triage system, those with the most need are seen first. This is how it should be.