Cat versus human a&e

[catmummy22]

My cat was a bit poorly last night so I took her to the out of hours cat hospital. I called them at 8 pm and within 1 hour, I had booked the appointment, had her checked over and was back home.
My friend’s mother also took a turn for the worse last night. They drive to a&e at the same time as I went with my cat, but had to wait to be seen until 4 am. Suspected heart issue so quite serious.

I paid 350 pounds for my cat to be seen. I have pet insurance. I really wish I could pay £350 to be seen if I needed a&e too. I rather pay that than wait a. Ight to be seen.

My AIBU is in the different health care offered to pets versus humans in this country. As a human you can’t even pay your way to be seen in an emergency. Brits seem to think as long as it’s free, it’s good, but is it time to start thinking about charging in the NHS too? I think so!

I take it you are a regular visitor then or is this just what your daughter tells you or maybe I have just foolishly risen to your bait. Not been to A and E for a while but the last time I had to go was in a work capacity (accompanying a service user) and it appeared to my untrained eye to be full of unwell people. The person I was with could not have afforded to pay, do you suggest that they should not have been seen?. They were admitted and were also stone cold sober

Don't know about Wales, but we pay higher taxes in Scotland and they are distributed differently. Again, with so many exemptions, I don't think they would raise much money if they had the same system as in England. It seems pretty pointless.

when my sister was an inpatient in 2017 (for a few months due to terrible injury) they told us each bed on her ward cost £5k per night - so no, it wouldn't really be affordable for most people to pay to jump the queue.

Not a regular visit to a&e, but know people who are and have to be sadly.

Having pets and seeing how insurance companies operate, makes me so thankful we have an NHS.

I think you are missing the point if you think I am saying people should pay 5k

Why?

No. You are.

Paying £50 or £350 would do what exactly? It doesn't cover the cost of an A&E visit. It's a token donation at best - and an expensive irritant (collections, those who default) to the hospitals and patients at worse (that's if they didn't fall into a potential pool of exempt patients). And yet triage would be based on need still, and the bed issue would remain. So wait times would not be guaranteed...

Nobody said you were. But the issues with the NHS won't be helped by increasing the population. That's the logic.

I think maybe they mean that by charging, then it will filter out the perceived "time wasters", and they will stay home and let the NHS deal with "real" patients.

You must be a bit of a porker if you're spending £50 on a takeaway. 🤣. Just sayin.

You paying to jump ahead in the queue isn't helping people who can't pay 🤦 It's just creating an unequal system where money gets you better outcomes in life. You've already said you have private healthcare so you're probably already receiving better healthcare / quicker access to services but a&e is for emergencies and people should be seen by order of priority as they are at the moment.

Really? me and my skint mates have never paid £99 for a haircut because guess what, we can't afford it and I have a take away about twice a year because I can't afford it. Is the prevalence of hair do's and a quick scan of recent Deliveroo orders the assessment tool you think should be used to calculate health care costs contributions? "it says here madam you had a cut and blow at Curl up and Dye two weeks ago and an extra large pizza and dough balls from Sloppy Senoritias only last night. That will be £450 for your stiches and Tetnus jab please, and no we don't do Klarna installment plans"

Because that's what happens with the NHS. It's mostly the same doctors doing NHS and private healthcare. This is incredibly simplified, but it goes something like this...

Mr. Poor has a lump somewhere odd, he can feel it and it hurts. He picks up the phone to book a GP appointment. He's given one for 3 weeks time. The GP is concerned it may be cancer and sends Mr. Poor for a scan on the "2 week" cancer-pathway, his scan appointment is for 6 weeks time. The scan shows he needs a biopsy. His appointment is for 2 weeks time, but is cancelled without explanation by the hospital, who rebooks is for a further 2 weeks time. Mr. Poor has his biopsy and is booked in for an appointment the following week to get the results, where he is told he has cancer. He needs to see Dr. CancerCure. The waiting list for that is 4 weeks, partly because Dr. CancerCure only works Mon/Wed/Fri (he sees private patients Tue/Thur and has the weekend off). Mr. Poor sees the doctor and starts cancer treatment the following week. It has been 19 weeks from booking a GP appointment to starting cancer treatment.

Mr. Rich has a lump somewhere odd, he can feel it and it hurts. He picks up the phone to book a private GP appointment and is given one for a couple of days time. The GP is concerned it may be cancer and sends Mr. Rich for a scan the following week. The scan shows he needs a biopsy, his appointment is tomorrow and the results come back in a couple of days, where he's told he has cancer. He needs to see Dr. CancerCure.

At this point Mr. Rich has two options. If he's been paying for his care himself up to now and doesn't have tens of thousands available in his pocket for private cancer treatment, he can join the NHS waiting list to see Dr. CancerCure in 4 weeks from now and start cancer treatment the following week. Meaning the time from booking the GP appointment to starting treatment would be 7 weeks.

Or if Mr. Rich has private health insurance he can see Dr. CancerCure next week as a private patient and start cancer treatment the following week. Meaning his time from booking the GP appointment to starting treatment for cancer would be 4 weeks.

People are saying that if there was an option to pay for NHS treatment at A&E they suspect a similar two-tier system would occur with A&E as well, with private patients effectively jumping the queue, lengthening the waiting time for NHS patients and resulting in even more of those NHS patients dying needlessly than currently happens now.

That's not my experience when I worked for the NHS During the Major / Blair years

I think what you’re outlining will happen sooner or later: insurance based access fees to see doctors. The NHS needs massive investment, as does education - where exactly the money will come from is the sticking.

So you want to jump the queue and be seen before those who are triaged as being in greater medical need?

I get where you're coming from - a vets seem to be far more efficient than a hospital. But I guess at the end of the day, we choose to have pets and therefore accept the potential costs that come with them.
I'm not sure how it would work for people who can't afford it. It should be assessed depending on severity.
Honestly I'm not sure what the answer is because also waiting for 12 hours in a&e isn't ideal either. I would however like the option of paying for certain "luxuries". Own room/tv/food etc to make any stay more palatable. But basic healthcare of course should be available to all.

It seems so.

Also, some people attending A&E are in no state to be giving payment when they turn up. What happens to them?

And what about those who just wouldn't go until it was too late because they were worrying about the cost so much.

One of the reasons the Welsh Government brought in free prescriptions was that it costs more in the long term if people don't get medication because they can't pay for it. A hospital stay is considerably more expensive!

We can put cats to sleep when their quality if life is poor.
Humans not so much.

& you do realise that if your cat suffers the same illness again it won’t be covered in your insurance classed as pre existing illness. So the next time you would have to pay the whole £350.

i agree it is the shortage of beds that is one of the main problems in A and E. DH recently spent 36 hours in A and E waiting for a bed on the ward. Triaged and seen promptly but bottleneck for beds. Also agree that it is the lack of joined up thinking regarding care after discharge. I was recently in hospital and the elderly lady in the bed next to me had been there months as there was no where suitable to discharge her to.

I certainly wouldn’t like the American system. So many people, even with insurance, who end up bankrupt because of the costs.

quoting you, you really wish you could pay 350 to be seen at A&E? Felines (and animals) aren’t humans so not sure why you are advocating for your cat to be treated in the same way as an ill child or adult

The NHS is NOT FREE.

For most citizens of the UK,
we just pay for our health care in a different way.

However, I suppose once someone is an independent adult, but because of an awful disability, or illness, that cannot be cured, or managed well enough, some people will appear to have free health care for the rest of their lives. But, even then, it is not free, it is just that the number of full tax payers are unfortunately, and scaringly, dwindling.

I believe that the growing lack of tax payers in the UK is due to quite a large variety of reasons, some of which are actually caused either directly, or more often, indirectly, by whatever Government we have in power at any given time.

There is neither the time, nor the space, in a 'normal' Mumsnet thread, for a worthwhile debate about the failure of the NHS, or the rights or wrongs of people like the OP, @catmummy22's desire to be able to pay extra amounts of money to the NHS in order to get preferential treatment. But while I have the opportunity here, I feel the need to tell you OP, that I think your attitude is very selfish, and should not have the ability to succeed in a democratic and caring society.

That doesn't mean that I believe in a fairytale communism, as I certainly don't. In many areas I think that the greater effort someone both legally and morally puts in to advance or maintain their own place in society, such as significantly more hours of physical and/or mental efforts than the average person does, and especially if their extra efforts enhance the lives of all, or at least most of the the society they live and work in. It would also be necessary that their extra income/lifestyle didn't detract from the less able members of their society's ability to have their basic human needs met - as judged by the society they live in, in today's modern day world - eg in the West, to have enough food, heat, roofs over their heads, clothes on their backs, education, health care, and whatever else is the norm for the society they live in, such as smart phones, TVs, fridges, cookers, etc etc etc.

So, as a person myself of very limited means - I am a pensioner who only receives the state pension, and a monthly PIP payment - I think that if all those conditions are met, then yes, they should be able to be awarded with a higher salary, and a more comfortable lifestyle - within, of course, certain parameters. I don't begrudge any kind, moral, hard-working. person being able to live in a much larger house than my terraced 2 up 2 down, plus a bathroom, home, and I don't begrudge them exotic foreign holidays, after all, I can visit nearly all of the same places through my TV, or mobile, screen! I don't even mind them having private health care for many things, but not for emergency care, and not if them having, say, a private hip operation, means that someone less fortunate (in monetary terms) has to forego, or even delay, receiving lifesaving care.

Human beings have a great many differing strengths and weaknesses, including far ranging individual amounts of aptitude, intelligence, memories and recall, to name just a few. We - human beings - encompass en masse, a great many other qualities, many of which can be beneficial to us as a whole, but also many that are only of benefit to themselves, and maybe a select few others. In my opinion, the main problems arise when a person's actions benefits only themself, or just a very small group of people important to them, and in doing so, also makes many other people's lives so much harder. @catmummy22, if you were allowed to pay extra money into the NHS to benefit yourself, and maybe a few others within your own circle of relatives and friends, in times of personal emergencies, that would have a very hard and harsh effect on so many of the rest of us. Please put more thought into your desires, and how they affect the rest of us. Of course I, and everyone else, should live by that last request as well as most of us are probably guilty of selfish behaviour at times!

I only started this post to say that the NHS is not FREE, which unfortunately, is typical me, sorry! 🙄