School refusing 3 days off for DS AIBU

[BaronPencil]

I suspect I am going to get flamed for this but I genuinely do not know what the right call is.

DS is 14, 15 in the summer, and he hates school. Not in a mild way, he actively resents it. Says it is pointless, says most of the boys mess about anyway but he gets picked up more because he answers back. There is probably some truth in that but he absolutely does not help himself.

He is basically on his last warning behaviour wise. We have had meetings with head of year and deputy head. They have used phrases like final chance, serious concerns about attitude, risk of not being invited back next year if there is no improvement. So yes, thin ice is putting it mildly.

Behaviour issues include:

Constant low level disruption
Talking when teacher is talking
Refusing to move seats when asked
Eye rolling and muttering under his breath
Not handing homework in repeatedly
Detentions for not turning up to detentions
Once told a teacher “this is why no one takes this subject seriously”

There was also an incident last year where he made some stupid misogynistic comments in class about girls being “too emotional” for leadership which got him into a huge amount of trouble. He swears he was joking but it was not funny and I was absolutely furious with him. School took it very seriously. Since then they have him firmly labelled as a problem child I think.

He is not SEN. There is no diagnosis, no learning issue. He just does not like being told what to do and he is not a straight A academic star which I sometimes think is what this particular school really values above everything else. He is capable of good grades but only when he feels like it which is not often.

The only area where he has ever been consistently positive is drama.

He got into acting at 12 through the school drama club. Completely by accident really, a friend dragged him along. He got a part in the school production and something just switched. Teachers were emailing saying how focused he was in rehearsals, how supportive of other cast members. It was like reading about someone else.

We then enrolled him in a local theatre group and he loves it. Properly loves it. He will practise accents in his bedroom, watch performances online, ask for feedback. It is the only thing he puts real effort into without being nagged.

Now he has been cast in a proper local theatre production. Rehearsals are evenings and weekends so that has not interfered with school at all.

But the performances include three weekday matinees in the last week before Easter holidays. So he would miss three full days right before they break up.

His attendance is currently 95 percent. But he is absolutely on his last warning behaviour wise.

I emailed school explaining the opportunity and asking if the absence could be authorised given it is a legitimate production and not just a random day off. I did mention that drama is the only area where he truly excels and that this could be positive for him.

Reply was very clear. No authorised absence for external activities. Policy is policy. If we keep him off it will be recorded as unauthorised absence and may be considered alongside his existing behaviour record.

I did ask whether there was any discretion given it is the last week before holidays and most of the academic content is winding down (yes I know that sounds dismissive). They said learning continues until the final day and expectations apply to all pupils equally.

DS’s view is blunt. He says acting is the only thing he is actually good at and the only reason he bothers trying at anything. He says if we make him miss it we are proving that school matters more to us than he does. He also says school already think he is a lost cause so what difference will three days make.

Part of me thinks he has not exactly earned special favours given his attitude. If anything he should be bending over backwards to show compliance right now not asking for time off. I can already hear people saying natural consequences and maybe that is fair.

But another part of me thinks if the one thing that genuinely motivates him is acting then why would we squash that, especially when school itself introduced him to it in the first place.

We pay a lot for this school because we wanted structure and high standards. I just did not anticipate feeling like the only area my son shines would be treated as irrelevant.

So AIBU to think they could show flexibility even though he is on his last warning and hardly model pupil of the year? Or is this exactly the kind of situation where the answer has to be no because of his behaviour record.

I think you have a DH problem rather than a problem child
You've sent your son to a private school because it's what your DH and other kids have done. He's been there all that time and you wasn't listening to him. Your DH enrolls him in rugby, I assume because DH played it & thinks it's a macho game to play. Except your DS is theatrical. He doesn't want to scrum, he wants to act.
I was bullied at school & changed schools half way through year 10. Still did ok in my GCSE's and went onto college.
For the love of god, pull him out of that school, it's not a good fit. At all. Let him do his stage work, he's clearly a different person when doing something he loves.
And tell your DH to f*ck off, from all of us.

...and seemingly neither does anyone else as it's the only school with space. I said 'nigh on' impossible (almost impossible).

But he isn’t going to get any qualifications at this rate! At least if he is somewhere more suitable he can hopefully focus on getting his maths and English as a minimum.

Could you get the drama teacher onside? To vouch for it being valuable?

I haven’t RTFT but how about trying to use this as a motivation to get him to at least behave tolerably at school. This is clearly something he loves and he might be willing to behave in class if he knows the reward will be to do this show.

And second other remarks to move him somewhere more arts focused. He loves performance and is clearly not about to become a rocket scientist, he’d probably benefit hugely from being able to be good at something in school. Who cares about his options as long as he can do drama and the core subjects.

I'd be inclined to risk it @BaronPencil . Talk to him and emphasise the need to get at least a handful of gcses, see if he'll enter an agreement with you that if he does the performances but ends up getting kicked out, he'll apply himself through private tuition to get his exams and then you'll continue to support him in the pathway of his choice.

It might be worth looking at the entry requirements of acting schools as motivation.

It sounds like he has a bit of a bad attitude problem. You can still be respectful and listen in classes even if they are not your favourite or give things a try. It is great he found a passion of course, but I would be concerned about his lack of interest/behaviour in other areas. Also, how is he going to get a job in the future if acting does not work out? He needs to learn good work ethic and responsibility. I have a feeling school is fed up and looking for a way to get rid of him. Most schools would authorise this.

The dates for the show would have been decided months ago, even before the casting. You would have known. Why is it only now you’re tackling this?

Has he got something to work towards? Why not investigate specialist colleges/sixth form that focus on the performing arts. Show him the grades he will need to get in and maybe go look at them. This may inspire him to knuckle down so he can follow his passion?

I think if the status quo was that he was doing ok at school and no behaviour problems I’d have been inclined to take him out for the production. I’m torn given his recent background. Problem is he will be letting the production down if he doesn’t go now… and he probably won’t get another chance with them either.

could you put a contract together between you and him that you will allow him to go out of school but his behaviour must improve in school? Get him to sign it. But that won’t overcome the school issue and they may decide to let him go in any event… and then what would you do?

I've read the full thread- your problem is that your DH is against this and you can't seem to be able to stand up to him in the best interests of your son, which I find very sad.

In the state school that I worked at this would have been classed as educational activity and they would have received an attendance mark. Likewise with sports like gymnastics etc where they take part in competitions

@BaronPencil DH is very against this

you and your DH need to accept that his time at this school has run its course and keeping him there when they don’t want him and he doesn’t want to be there is toxic and damaging. He will throw this in your face as an adult, if he hasn’t already and he’d be right.

Getting few GCSE’s isn’t the end of the world and sounds like it’s going to be the way of things regardless, so fuck it, remove him.

Could he not attend school in the mornings and just have afternoons off for performances? (a couple of others have suggested this).
But it does sound as though the school are being difficult because they don't like him. They will have other parents complaining if he is disrupting classes - people pay for private school to avoid this.
Sounds as though he should go to a different school. Meanwhile perhaps current school would look on him more kindly if he could behave properly when he is there.

A drama school would understand that his behaviour is stemming from the fact that he is in a thoroughly unsuitable school environment for his needs. They would speak to his theatre school and the people he has worked with on productions, not just a school that has no respect for the arts as a valid choice.

Much like many people on this thread who keep referring to what is a potentially excellent learning and future career supporting opportunity as 'a bit of fun' or a hobby!

STEM and other academic subjects are not the be all and end all of school life and some kids just will not thrive in that environment.

To prevent them doing something developmental and educational as a continued punishment for acting badly in a place where they are fundamentally unhappy at the age of 15 is positively Dickensian!

Schools job is to make sure the children attend, don't cause any issues, and learn what they are supposed to (and get good results if it's a results focussed school)
Your job as a parent is to raise happy, well rounded children who can get a job that pays the bills and ideally they love, and to be on their side.

Sometimes the two coincide, but if they don't, listen to them, but make your own decision.

I would definitely let him do the production, if he wants a career in acting it’ll be invaluable for him, and if it’s what he genuinely enjoys it and is good at it then I would encourage it as he’s so disengaged from school.

I’d also look into online schooling as pps have said, talk about it with him and see if he would be interested, you may find he’s more motivated when he isn’t in a school environment as he can clearly be motivated when he wants to be. I’d make him putting in effort to at least his core subjects as a requirement for attending drama club though, so he knows his schooling is still important.

Not all private schools are the ones that you're referring to A- public schools

lots of special needs private schools

@BaronPencil Let him do theatre! And I think state school would be better for him. He sounds like a free spirit and private school is not for them.

the other thing is that once you get a reputation in your school it is bloody hard to get people to see you differently, even if you work as hard as you can to change. They're always ready to think the worst of you and judge you on your past behaviour. I don't think kids get a genuine second chance at the same school. That then makes the kid feel there's no point even trying and you see a deterioration in their behaviour again.

Have you looked at local options and what he needs (apart from a good audition) to get into a sixth form specialising in theatre? Probably 5 x 5 GCSEs including English and Maths, which is also a reasonable springboard for lots of other routes. How does he want to get there - can he knuckle down at his current school? Does he want to move to a local state school and accept he might need to switch exam boards? Does he want to do online school for a year and you enter him privately for exams? Actually listen to what he wants to do with his life and work out a route to get him there. His bridges are burnt at his current school, he needs a fresh start and he’s more likely to cooperate if you actually listen to what he wants and stop forcing a square peg into a round hole.

We’ve had similar struggles with DS2 who was diagnosed with ADHD but can sympathise with the endless low level disruption and always being in trouble. Once they are labelled a ‘bad kid’ it’s hard to row back from that. My son has a niche special interest he’s really good at - excellent for self esteem and as a ‘carrot’ - he only gets to go when homework is complete. I think you need to commit to the production (you can’t dangle that at the moment as the company will need a yes or no) but going forward you can make attending theatre club contingent on good behaviour, once you have listened properly and agreed with your son a way forward.

From what you have said, your son sounds very difficult and disrespectful and having read that you’re paying for his schooling, I am quite surprised that he hasn’t been asked to leave. With that in mind, I wonder if the school would take the opportunity of him missing three days of term to beef up their case to get him removed.

It is sad that they haven’t supported his time off, however he hasn’t curried any good favour to expect rules to be bent - it’s a hard lesson to learn but he needs to understand that his very poor behaviour has consequences

I don't understand why you aren't moving him? He's a massive problem to the setting he's in and he obviously hates it. Move him to a state school and he's just another problem amongst lots of problems, but one that at least has an interest in something that is usually valued to some degree. A lot of state secondaries will do a big production to a decent standard once a year and have drama and mosaic departments (if it doesn't then its not the one for him).

You've mentioned his options. He needs maths and English but after that what is it that he wants to do. Drama presumably? What else that you think won't fit? I'd enquire. Save your money for something he might want to do later.

Your DH is clearly expecting him to fit the mould of his siblings, which consequently has contributed the these issues for sure. Each child is different and parenting them needs to be too.

As a PP said, a performing arts school would be a great option. Lots of pupils move school at the end of year 10. It’s not ideal, but i can’t see the current situation leading to academic success.

As a secondary teacher myself, it makes me sad how many PP have dismissed him as being awful etc. I teach pupils like this. I don’t dislike many of them at all. They usually have redeeming features and are still growing up. He needs some understanding and support. Anything that he is passionate about is only going to help his personal development. Let him have those days off. The teachers will no doubt open their register that day, see he is absent and be relieved they don’t have to deal with his behaviour anyway! The school have to do the official line about unauthorised absence.

Is this a professional production? I assume he will need to be licensed by the local authority? As part of this process the school is asked for permission. Some give it, some do not. With an attendance level of 95% our local authority would still licence the child (our LA will licence without the school’s permission provided attendance exceeds 90%).

we once had a head who refused all requests, my children still performed,

Mother, grandmother and ex teacher here. I think you really have to let him do this and deal with whatever the consequences are after. This is either the making or the breaking of him . If you don’t let him do it the breaking is a certainty.