School refusing 3 days off for DS AIBU

[BaronPencil]

I suspect I am going to get flamed for this but I genuinely do not know what the right call is.

DS is 14, 15 in the summer, and he hates school. Not in a mild way, he actively resents it. Says it is pointless, says most of the boys mess about anyway but he gets picked up more because he answers back. There is probably some truth in that but he absolutely does not help himself.

He is basically on his last warning behaviour wise. We have had meetings with head of year and deputy head. They have used phrases like final chance, serious concerns about attitude, risk of not being invited back next year if there is no improvement. So yes, thin ice is putting it mildly.

Behaviour issues include:

Constant low level disruption
Talking when teacher is talking
Refusing to move seats when asked
Eye rolling and muttering under his breath
Not handing homework in repeatedly
Detentions for not turning up to detentions
Once told a teacher “this is why no one takes this subject seriously”

There was also an incident last year where he made some stupid misogynistic comments in class about girls being “too emotional” for leadership which got him into a huge amount of trouble. He swears he was joking but it was not funny and I was absolutely furious with him. School took it very seriously. Since then they have him firmly labelled as a problem child I think.

He is not SEN. There is no diagnosis, no learning issue. He just does not like being told what to do and he is not a straight A academic star which I sometimes think is what this particular school really values above everything else. He is capable of good grades but only when he feels like it which is not often.

The only area where he has ever been consistently positive is drama.

He got into acting at 12 through the school drama club. Completely by accident really, a friend dragged him along. He got a part in the school production and something just switched. Teachers were emailing saying how focused he was in rehearsals, how supportive of other cast members. It was like reading about someone else.

We then enrolled him in a local theatre group and he loves it. Properly loves it. He will practise accents in his bedroom, watch performances online, ask for feedback. It is the only thing he puts real effort into without being nagged.

Now he has been cast in a proper local theatre production. Rehearsals are evenings and weekends so that has not interfered with school at all.

But the performances include three weekday matinees in the last week before Easter holidays. So he would miss three full days right before they break up.

His attendance is currently 95 percent. But he is absolutely on his last warning behaviour wise.

I emailed school explaining the opportunity and asking if the absence could be authorised given it is a legitimate production and not just a random day off. I did mention that drama is the only area where he truly excels and that this could be positive for him.

Reply was very clear. No authorised absence for external activities. Policy is policy. If we keep him off it will be recorded as unauthorised absence and may be considered alongside his existing behaviour record.

I did ask whether there was any discretion given it is the last week before holidays and most of the academic content is winding down (yes I know that sounds dismissive). They said learning continues until the final day and expectations apply to all pupils equally.

DS’s view is blunt. He says acting is the only thing he is actually good at and the only reason he bothers trying at anything. He says if we make him miss it we are proving that school matters more to us than he does. He also says school already think he is a lost cause so what difference will three days make.

Part of me thinks he has not exactly earned special favours given his attitude. If anything he should be bending over backwards to show compliance right now not asking for time off. I can already hear people saying natural consequences and maybe that is fair.

But another part of me thinks if the one thing that genuinely motivates him is acting then why would we squash that, especially when school itself introduced him to it in the first place.

We pay a lot for this school because we wanted structure and high standards. I just did not anticipate feeling like the only area my son shines would be treated as irrelevant.

So AIBU to think they could show flexibility even though he is on his last warning and hardly model pupil of the year? Or is this exactly the kind of situation where the answer has to be no because of his behaviour record.

You are missing the point that the school will be contacted about the performance licence. No reputable theatre company, amateur or professional, will risk overlooking the fundamentals of Child Employment law. Op is in no position to lie about his absence.

Why do people (like your DH) imply that doing an activity where you're the only boy surrounded my loads of girls is 'gay' whereas hanging out with lots of sweaty men (rugby, football, etc) is 'straight' - surely it's the other way around??

And also... why is it valid because AI wrote it?

The pp who said her actress child is on a course full of young people with ADHD and ASD - this has been our experience too.

I don't think you should rule out SEN OP.

As you can probably afford it, an educational psychology assessment may shed light on your son's struggles with education and inform his future studies.

Part of my work is in the theatre working with young people in training. I'm with the school (and your attitude about "paying" is more than a bit off).

I can see where you're coming from @BaronPencil - it must be a relief to see that your DS has found his thing. I see this transformation a lot - but with kids from far less privilege than your DS.

BUT - and it's a big caveat, the kind of behaviour he demonstrates in everything else does not augur well even for his theatre work.

He sounds like a complete tosser in school classes and his attitude to his female peers stinks. OK so now he's happy in his drama classes, as he's good at it. And he gets his strokes - positive feedback. He focuses & is supportive - everything he is NOT in all his other classes. So he can behave respectfully and learn, but he just doesn't choose to.

At the moment, he's getting lots of positive feedback as a child actor. And so he behaves, because it's in his interests to do so. But what happens if he gets less than positive feedback, or a performance challenge he finds difficult or fails at? What happens if he has a female director, or stage manager, or producer (ie a woman in charge) telling him what to do?

To allow him to keep on doing the thing that suits him to do, while apparently overlooking his brattish behaviour in everything else, is madness. He needs to have a short, sharp lesson in life.

Because the kind of behaviour you say he exhibits in school would get him chucked out of any professional rehearsal room I've ever been in. And that behaviour in school is habitual for him: disrespect of other's knowledge, experience and ideas. Disrespect of his female peers ' existence, it sounds like.

I think you and your DH need to have a good long look at yourselves. If I were you & your DH, I'd be wondering what we'd done wrong to bring up such a brat. And keep your badly-behaved boy out of any professional rehearsal room.

I don’t like the fact that your DS is emotionally blackmailing you saying that you will have shown school matters to you more than he does. That is really poor.

is it not all being done via a child licence? So the council would be refusing? Or do private schools not deal with child acting licences?

Unfortunately it sounds as if he doesn’t deserve any favours if he can’t behave himself so I don’t blame them.

I should add that I think growing up in the theatre is a fantastic thing for children - they learn about the extraordinary work ethic that performers have to have, they learn discipline & skill, and they learn resilience and how to cope with rejection & failure.

But in this case, your DS has been indulged and the school is right.

There will be other opportunities and other shows.

So you want the school to just let him have 3 days off for this production and essentially reward the badly behaved student who disrupts every lesson and is rude to all of his teachers that’s just going to make the other hard working students think they if they mess about they will be treated the same. Policy is policy you can’t make them bend the rules for your problematic child he’s fucked around too many times and now he’s finding out what happens when you don’t do as you’re told.

Why do people (like your DH) imply that doing an activity where you're the only boy surrounded my loads of girls is 'gay'

Where has dh said anything about ds being gay? That's something posters have invented.

DS has been in trouble for making derogatory remarks about girls. It seems reasonable for his dad to point out that this might be a girl-dominated environment.

This.

School just doesnt suit some kids, he's 14, he isnt going to be sensible at times and clearly the school structure doesnt suit. I have no idea why schools 'threaten' to off roll someone who clearly doesnt want to be there, its a reward, he would probably be dleighted to get expelled!!

Enrole him in stage school or drama school, or 'home educate' and focus on the acting. One day he might go back to academic study.

I think boys should be taken out of school around 12 and not put back until late teens. Get them working.

Well, he's been hoisted by his own pertard hasn't he? If he needs the school to sign a performance licence, and his shitty behaviour has made them want rid of him.
Experience is a harsh teacher, but by god, he'll learn!

He may not make a career out of acting no, but he will be 'studying' learning skills, compromise, negotiation, social skills, abilities

What academic achievement does it sound like he would get right now in the current school anyway? He's not learning anything because he's messing about so much and risks getting chucked out anyway.

You can go back to academics at any time and stage schools still have that element to them anyway.

I bought it up - but NOT because I have 'made up' that the lad is gay.

I'm pointing out that this is the (absurd) way his very 1950s-sounding father might view things, hence the way he's anti-acting, pro-rugby and building him a man cave...

I'm saying this is behaviour of a kind of backwards-thinking 'alpha male' type who thinks state schools are for losers, that his son MUST go to the 'family' school etc and that acting is 'gay'.

Again; IT ISNT. I'm saying that he sounds like the kind of idiot who THINKS it is, in his son.

I think you would be making a big mistake forcing him to go to school and miss out on an opportunity. Education isn't everything like it used to be, unless you want to be in a specific field like law or medicine, for example. Discovering a passion like he has could be the key to his future, don't stand in the way of that he will never forgive you.

The relative shortage of male actors is the exact reason why it IS a good idea. If DS was a girl he'd have to be extremely talented and lucky to get anywhere as the competition is incredibly fierce. I do am dram and a lot of my co-actors are trying to go pro. The boys float through on clouds of success in comparison to the girls who are out there fighting for a bit part. That's why I stay amateur, I haven't got the stomach for the rejection.

We don't overlook his behaviour. As I said we do give him consequences but he doesn't care. The one time we didn't allow him to go to his theatre group he sobbed but he didn't change his behaviour or attitude towards us. And it is beneficial for him to go so I don't think using that as a weapon is a good idea as he's like a different child there.

He has a female teacher in drama at school and his theatre group and he is fine and listens, his other subject he has a mix of male and female teachers. The lesson he's worse in is PE with a male teacher because he still has to do it even though it's not a GCSE option (rightly as its exercise) but it's probably the lesson he hates most as well a history even though he picked it himself for GCSEs. History was the lesson he made the misogynistic gfomment in

To the posters saying we should've called in sick, we can't as we need their permission although the LA can override if he has good attendance I don't know if 95% is good to them, we would make sure he catches up at home and yes he probably wouldn't need the full days

Forget your son for a moment, I’m seeing so many red flags about your DH.
He thinks son might be gay (which presumably he wouldn’t approve of).
He needs son to go to Uni otherwise he (husband) will have failed.
He created a man cave for son that son didn’t want or ask for, then told him off for being ungrateful.
Signed him up for rugby club (that he didn’t want to do) so son had to get himself kicked out to get out of doing it.

I’d say your controlling, image-obsessed husband could be a big part of the problem here.
How do he and your son get along?
Could your son be utterly miserable at home, hate school due to the similar rules & control that he gets from his Dad, but love drama for the freedom of expression and escapism that it brings him?
And what if he is in fact gay - if he realises how his Dad will react, I’m guessing that would put a lot of extra stress on him.
I’d get him to counselling for a start and definitely let him do the drama and deal with consequences from the school afterwards.
Your son sounds quite manipulative too - guessing that’s learned behaviour from your husband?

Yanbu. School is BU for not being prepared to give him a chance at something he is clearly excelling in and could be the key to fixing his behavioural issues.

The acting up in class is quite possibly routed in low self esteem and trying to be the funny guy. Drama is the right outlet for that

I think the school will use it as a reason to get rid of him, so if you grant the time off, be prepared to move to another school and explain the consequences to your son clearly.

His behaviour is poor. But at this age, he can understand the immediate consequences and I fear you've missed the time to really effect his mindset. Some children are just not academic. I would let him follow the drama route. As long as he is fully aware he may be expelled, have to change schools and may not be able to study drama. Because of his behaviour already, he has carved his path and earned his reputation.

History was the lesson he made the misogynistic comment in

He's an idiot. Has he never heard of Queen Elizabeth I? Aethelflaed of Mercia? Catherine the Great of Russia? To name just three.

He thinks son might be gay

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT HE THINKS THIS!

In regards to SEN - nothing has ever been picked up, he was prem and born at 30 weeks and while he was slightly delayed it wasn't major. From a young age he was always outgoing and since nursery he loved being the centre of attention and making everyone laugh but it wasnt a problem then behaviour wise as it obviously wasn't disruptive

I don't believe he does have SEN as he's also shown he can behave in school but I'm not a professional

Yes I'm sure DH doesn't help, they aren't exactly close and often just argue which always leads to DH saying “we give you everything and this is how you behave” and often talks about behaviour often go with him saying be needs to be a man. He tries to arrange things for hum to do with the 3 boys but it's nothing DS enjoys or wants to do so when he refuses to get ready and go he gets accused of being ungrateful and spoilt but then in another breathe he suggested DS was bored and lonely being our only child here FT - as one DS is in his 2nd year of uni and other is living with his gf - and suggested getting him a dog. I said a firm no as he's never shown interest in wanting a dog and it would be me looking after it. So he then built the man cave which I knew wasn't going to go down well as DS had never asked for that

I will probably get vilified over this but the school don’t like him, probably with good cause. This could have been written about me so I understand. Not letting him take part in this event will make him worse and even more resentful. The school are wrong in this decision and he should be allowed to do this. They are holding him back. It’s up to you whether you let him or not, but next time just say he’s sick. If this is the only thing he’s good at the of course he should participate. As I said this could have been written about me and my second son. I went on to own three businesses and my son is doing extremely well. Don’t give up and please support him. The school in my opinion are being really silly as this will result in even poorer behaviour and resentment. If they backed him they could possible see a big change in his behaviour.

I would allow him to participate and sod the school record. They are being difficult on purpose.
denying him participation will not result in anything good, he’ll just hate school even more and will bomb out of it anyway.