School refusing 3 days off for DS AIBU

[BaronPencil]

I suspect I am going to get flamed for this but I genuinely do not know what the right call is.

DS is 14, 15 in the summer, and he hates school. Not in a mild way, he actively resents it. Says it is pointless, says most of the boys mess about anyway but he gets picked up more because he answers back. There is probably some truth in that but he absolutely does not help himself.

He is basically on his last warning behaviour wise. We have had meetings with head of year and deputy head. They have used phrases like final chance, serious concerns about attitude, risk of not being invited back next year if there is no improvement. So yes, thin ice is putting it mildly.

Behaviour issues include:

Constant low level disruption
Talking when teacher is talking
Refusing to move seats when asked
Eye rolling and muttering under his breath
Not handing homework in repeatedly
Detentions for not turning up to detentions
Once told a teacher “this is why no one takes this subject seriously”

There was also an incident last year where he made some stupid misogynistic comments in class about girls being “too emotional” for leadership which got him into a huge amount of trouble. He swears he was joking but it was not funny and I was absolutely furious with him. School took it very seriously. Since then they have him firmly labelled as a problem child I think.

He is not SEN. There is no diagnosis, no learning issue. He just does not like being told what to do and he is not a straight A academic star which I sometimes think is what this particular school really values above everything else. He is capable of good grades but only when he feels like it which is not often.

The only area where he has ever been consistently positive is drama.

He got into acting at 12 through the school drama club. Completely by accident really, a friend dragged him along. He got a part in the school production and something just switched. Teachers were emailing saying how focused he was in rehearsals, how supportive of other cast members. It was like reading about someone else.

We then enrolled him in a local theatre group and he loves it. Properly loves it. He will practise accents in his bedroom, watch performances online, ask for feedback. It is the only thing he puts real effort into without being nagged.

Now he has been cast in a proper local theatre production. Rehearsals are evenings and weekends so that has not interfered with school at all.

But the performances include three weekday matinees in the last week before Easter holidays. So he would miss three full days right before they break up.

His attendance is currently 95 percent. But he is absolutely on his last warning behaviour wise.

I emailed school explaining the opportunity and asking if the absence could be authorised given it is a legitimate production and not just a random day off. I did mention that drama is the only area where he truly excels and that this could be positive for him.

Reply was very clear. No authorised absence for external activities. Policy is policy. If we keep him off it will be recorded as unauthorised absence and may be considered alongside his existing behaviour record.

I did ask whether there was any discretion given it is the last week before holidays and most of the academic content is winding down (yes I know that sounds dismissive). They said learning continues until the final day and expectations apply to all pupils equally.

DS’s view is blunt. He says acting is the only thing he is actually good at and the only reason he bothers trying at anything. He says if we make him miss it we are proving that school matters more to us than he does. He also says school already think he is a lost cause so what difference will three days make.

Part of me thinks he has not exactly earned special favours given his attitude. If anything he should be bending over backwards to show compliance right now not asking for time off. I can already hear people saying natural consequences and maybe that is fair.

But another part of me thinks if the one thing that genuinely motivates him is acting then why would we squash that, especially when school itself introduced him to it in the first place.

We pay a lot for this school because we wanted structure and high standards. I just did not anticipate feeling like the only area my son shines would be treated as irrelevant.

So AIBU to think they could show flexibility even though he is on his last warning and hardly model pupil of the year? Or is this exactly the kind of situation where the answer has to be no because of his behaviour record.

I'd allow your son to miss school and go to the performances. Yes he's behaviour isn't good but think school are being short-sighted about not supporting your son to do something he clearly loves, engages with and excells at. He's demonstrating that during drama lessons at school and this is an extension of that.
Not sure what to suggest about behaviour generally tho! Clearly school isn't working for him and other options might need to be considered......

Your DS is making it clear that he isn't right for this school and the school aren't right for him.

If he does the production, then school will kick him out. If school block the production, which they will with the licence, then his behaviour will deteriorate.

Ask the school which exam boards they are using for each subject and get home ed tutors to teach for those curricula. If the school think he will leave, they will probably flood you with course textbooks, recommendations and help - they don't want him. I think you need to be less passive here; the relationship is broken and there isn't a way back.

Tell your DS that if you let him leave, he needs to work well with the tutors. If he rebels after they stop this production but stays in that school, he'll be lucky to get a couple of 4s.

OP has explained that the theatre company is based in a neighbouring LA where the production dates are in that LA’s holidays.

They're still not allowed to take children out of school, though.

Additionally, other posters have explained that the usual process in term time is for the school to sign a permission slip, releasing the child for the hours needed.

HTH.

I see, but I think they might also be concerned about saying yes and then having to say yes to others for requests so I still think saying his sick is easier. They’ll guess but not sure what they can do about it?

Seems your son feels inferior compared to his siblings because he isn’t as academic as they are. Rather than suffer the humiliation of poorer grades, he finds it easier to distract from that and be disruptive as he feels he doesn’t fit in anyway. It’s very sad for him. Thank goodness he has found something he likes to do…something to base his dreams on.

I would give him a massive talking to, to tell him that between now and end of term and end of next term, he has to stop the disruption and answering back, sit quietly, and start to attempt homework and get it in on time. That is the minimum requirement.
Talk to him lovingly OP, but be firm that he must stick to the terms you lay down for his own good or he will ruin his life’s chances.
Tell him even if he feels there is no point, which you completely truly do now understand, he must realise that that’s the only way you will allow him time off for his part in the theatre production.
Tell him it’s entirely up to him if he is allowed that time off or not.

You aren’t asking for the world, just for common decency and a basic pass in English, Maths, a science at GCSE and of course Drama studies, all of which are vital for opening up his world into the next steps of his own choosing.
So it’s in his hands now, he can quietly, without any further fuss, grow up a bit, conform at school and stop his brattish behaviour and put some homework in, because if he doesn’t, he loses the privilege of you going against school policy yourself in allowing him the three afternoons off.
Tell him it’s so wonderful to have found something he loves to do, you are very excited about it yourself for him, and you will encourage and support that all you can but he, in turn, must also learn how to behave without disruption until he has finished his GCSE’s.
Remind him his future success and happiness is in his own hands, - he’s no longer a child.
He can make the very simple choice himself.
Tell him that school refusing is never the answer - and neither is being rude and discourteous going to get him anywhere in life. There will be rules to follow even in belonging to a theatre production company.
It’s up to him now. Only he can make his acting dreams happen.
Spell out very clearly what that minimum good behaviour looks like.
Write it down for him in bullet points.
Finally tell him how much you love him and how much you want him to be happy. And that’s why you can’t allow him to continue to fail at school even though you completely get why he hates going there.
Let him know you really believe in him as an actor and are very proud of him for that. It’s fantastic.

If you can keep him on track and he can conform a bit better, I would happily allow him to take the three afternoons off for his performances but he MUST go in to school on time for the morning sessions.

No need. Just respond like an adult. I would have taken the point without the snarky addendum.

It seems that Op tried the talking to earlier in the term and the DS was good for two days then slipped back

Yes, I suppose so, fair point.

My grandaughter went to the Brit School and then into Italia Conti. She loved both and is now a performer on a cruise ship.

Be warned though - unless it’s changed, the Brit school wanted good academic records and good behaviour reports.

Competition is fierce to get into them.

I left school at 15 with no qualifications. I'm now in a job where all of my colleagues have degrees and still started at the bottom of this particular professions ladder and worked their way up alongside completing a professional qualification.

I got there by working from the ground up and gaining the transferable skills. I'm on track to move to a more senior role within the next year as succession planning is in place. Mainstream education isn't for everyone and if my parents had pushed it it would have damaged our relationship.

Not the point of your post but have you checked he doesn’t need a child performance licence? Even some amateur shows do especially if it’s during school time so might be worth checking that as well. That will impact school permission if so.

Yes, that's very true. There are many determined and talented young people competing for every place. This young man won't find it easy.

He already thinks sending him to a state school is “embarrasing” and means “we've failed”

What terrible snobbery. Must affect your son if that’s his dad’s attitude. And having the weight of expectation not to ‘fail’ and follow in his brothers’ wake.

Re your dilemma, depends what matters most:

• Teaching your son to keep an open mind, be respectful to teachers and that we all have to do things we don’t enjoy to give ourselves options (e.g. pass enough exams to get into a performing arts college or a drama degree) and for the sake of fairness to all.

• Teaching your son state schools aren’t embarrassing and don’t result in failure - and in fact some have v good drama departments. Look to move him to a state school, thus allowing him to pursue his passion and do the show. But he’d still have to learn to respect teachers and other pupils (by not selfishly disrupting classes).

I’d suggest the latter.

Though bear in mind he may lose interest in acting by 16. Teenagers can be fickle.

I think this is good advice.

I'm a secondary teacher. I've taught a number of students who behave like your son and my goodness it's miserable for teaching staff and for students who do want to learn.

I am also the mum of a child who sees little value in education (ironically enough and DH is a teacher too!) but I come down like a ton of bricks on any rudeness. Not seeing the point - ok. Half assed homework - not brilliant but it should be done. Rudeness to staff, messing about, disrupting others: never ok!

The end is in sight. He just needs those 5 reasonable GCSEs including Maths and English and he can go somewhere else.

I know this isn’t answering your question directly, but from reading all your responses I have to say I think a big part of the problem might be your DH. He doesn’t want to move him to another school even though the current one doesn’t sound great for him, he won’t accept that university might not be best for him and he seems to disapprove of the one hobby your son loves (building the games room makes it sound like he’d rather he was into ‘traditional’ hobbies like darts). It sounds like he wants to will your son into being the kind of kid he wants him to be, rather than accepting who he is and considering what’s best for him. Your son then probably absorbs that, which won’t be helping his behaviour issues. I think you talk your DH and advocate for your son on the above points. I’m sorry - it sounds really hard.

Have you considered that there may be some SEN affecting your son?

This does not excuse his awful misogyny and backchat and general disruption but it might explain why he struggles so much in school.

The pressure of Y11 may mean he refuses to go to school altogether eventually if his achievement is significantly below his peers. Assuming the school let him stay.

As for the theatre production I think you should let him do it. And manage the consequences from school when they arise.

Yes, I think this is exactly it. It's not easy, but perhaps conversation with your husband could help to move things forward? He's not the person your husband wishes he was.
It's tough. I think you're right to focus on what he enjoys, but in the end, that school (like darts, pool and rugby) isn't for him.

YABU and your post is full of excuses for your son. That way you’re enabling him to become someone who isn’t really able to function in society and could get in real trouble as an adult.

Sounds like acting is a route for him in the future. But honestly it’s on you that you didn’t clock the performances were during school hours. Did the production company not mention this when he signed up?

If he misses the days he’ll be out if school. So you have other options school wise?

OP, I'm a teacher at a similar sounding private school, and we've had a few students like your DS. Substitute theatre for swimming, dance, music, etc. and it's the same issue.

It's very hard for a school to be generous towards a student and their family when the student has shown such disrespect and made the lives of the teachers and other faculty so difficult. However, in the case of my school, we put our 'professional' hats on, and work with the family to pursue the interest and talents of the student.

We have this situation right now. An extremely poorly behaved, disruptive year 10 boy is a professional swimmer and has been chosen to represent his country at an upcoming sporting competition. It involves missing a huge amount of school, leaving lessons early etc. His teachers were very annoyed that this disruptive, disrespectful student was being allowed to skip lessons, completed modified assessments, and have long deadline extensions.

However, we also understand that this student will probably not go to university or pursue any kind of academic career, and that our jobs as professionals is to ensure that each and every student has the opportunity to pursue their passions and talents. So we all held our noses and modified our courses to cater for this student. I know many other private schools would do the same.

I will say though - In this case, the parents are extremely kind, supportive, and lovely to work with. They are not combative at all, and it helps that his older brother was a wonderful student who was a joy to teach. When the family is on board, it's a lot easier to want to help them. Just this week, I had to modify three of my group work assessments to make them individual assessments just for him to do while he travels. It was an absolute pain in the backside for me to do, but his mum came to thank me personally and gave me a box a chocolates!

So, work on your relationship with the school. Remember that you're working WITH the school, not against them.

Has he had any kind of assessment, say for ADHD?

It's horrible that your DH thinks it will look like failure to move your DS. Right now you're all setting him up for failure himself at the current school.

Let him do the show, go and visit local state schools and see what other options there are. He is behaving really badly and that's on him but clearly he is a square peg in a round hole there.

All behaviour is communication. If it were me, I’d prioritise his mental wellbeing and allow him to do something he loves and can do well in. Prioritise your relationship with him too, and make sure he knows he can’t carry on behaving like this in other lessons.

This and the ridiculous attempt at blackmail He says if we make him miss it we are proving that school matters more to us than he does. He also says school already think he is a lost cause so what difference will three days make.
and he’s proving misbehaving and being rude at school is more important than acting.

Been in a similar situation, albeit in the (embarrassing) state sector in terms of needing time off for a production. It was granted on the basis of good attendance and good behaviour.

i think this needs to be a tough lesson for your child.