To think this is utterly disgusting?!?

[LucyWestenra]

What is wrong with people??

Talk about adding insult to injury!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15602697/amp/Green-Party-spin-doctor-denies-women-raped-October-7-attacks.html

No, I don't agree.

Err no... the Green Party woman said that there was no evidence and no victims had come forward and that even if that had not been the case, it would not have justified what happened in Gaza.

So everything I have said is relevant to the thread and to what has been said on the thread. And I have pushed back at the accusations of rape denial as that is not what was tweeted and that has not been said here.

You are either misunderstanding or misrepresenting.

There was evidence of rapes. The evidence in reports has been shared on this thread several times. Victims who were raped and then murdered cannot 'come forward' as is the case in any British court when someone is raped and murdered, the victim cannot present themselves.

The 'Green Party woman' as you refer to her, was wrong. There were rapes. She has deleted her tweets. However, they were screenshot prior to deletion.

I'm not misunderstanding. I'm not misrepresented.

Numerous people have pushed back at you and what you have said, on quite a number of your posts, now. Those people also disagree with you. However, it is clear you intend to double down on your stance.

There was evidence of rapes. People were raped. Men and women. A testimony of a live victim was shared up thread from.a man who was raped. Some people don't believe him.

Dead women can't 'come forward'.

It is about the fact that Palestinians celebrating what they saw as a Hamas victory would not be celebrating something Hamas had said they hadn't done.

But how do you know what Hamas (and others who stormed across the border on October 7th) told other Palestinians about what they had or hadn’t done?
They might have officially tried to deny the rapes committed, and at the same time bragged to their mates about it.

'and that the awful videos released if the woman with the BLOOD stained trousers HAD BEEN BRUTALLY RAPED' by Hamas who fucking well filmed themselves doing it.

I won't write what I really think of you @magneticclocks because it will get removed by MNHQ.

What do you think it was people in Gaza celebrated after the October 7th attack?
Some abstract “Hamas victory”, where no violence had taken place, because that would have been against Muslim beliefs?
”The woman in the pick up”, do you mean Shani Louk? People in the streets in Gaza were spitting at her mutilated body, and yet Hamas claimed she was killed by someone else? Is that what you’re saying?
Would you at least admit that the people doing the spitting were “celebrating”?

I responded to a poster about the likelihood of celebration and have since then had to deal with personal attacks from you and others. I am simply saying to you all over and over again that your posts to me are not acceptable and explaining why. So clearly not doubling down as you say. And the "quite a few people" are all people who you post alongside a lot, I have read your posts on many threads and I personally think you all tend to post in quite an extreme way and follow the same ideology. This is just my impression. You may disagree.

But since your accusations have widened, I will confirm again what I have said (several times and posted evidence). Abi W (the Green Party Woman as you call her) posted tweets which basically said the same thing as the professionals who were appointed to investigate rape after Oct 7. That the professionals had said that there had not been evidence provided, that they had asked Israel for evidence and nothing had been given, and that there was very little evidence at all and nothing which suggested that rape had been systemic. They said that the fact that there was little evidence does not mean there was not rape. The decapitated baby story was also said to be not evidenced. And in relation to rape there were examples given of where rape had initially been assumed but then found to not be the case according to family members - this is what Jewish family members had said publically.

The Dinah report has come since then. As has the UN report.

So you can see there is conflicting evidence.

The people who talk about evidence and are critical of the Israel state might be saying that they found the initial reports by professionals to be more convincing, or they might be saying that they think that the information has been provided by Israel and is false and intended to justify the tens of thousands who have died in Gaza since then.

I don't know.

But what they are not saying are the various things they are accused of saying in this thread such as "Jewish people don't matter" or "Jewish people were raped and that is ok" or "let's celebrate". Unless they have said that? I haven't seen that reported anywhere.

In the past governments have lied about rape in war, and the lies later confirmed (so not a theory) and I could give you examples which are both very recent and also going back to wwI. If no one had investigate these things, for fear of being told they are rape denying, we would never have known.

And “the woman in the pick up” - Hamas apparently told the people in Gaza “it hadn’t been them” or “it was false flag” or “fake” (?), and yet at the same time they paraded her body around and passers by spat on her, but they couldn’t have possibly celebrated violence because “it’s against Muslim beliefs”. Make it make sense.

They said they were celebrating the taking of hostages, which were to be used to get the large number of Palestinian hostages to be released, I think. That had been seen as a Hamas victory, as they had got through the fence. As far as I know rape is against Muslim beliefs, not fighting. I don't mean to be rude but I am shocked that you are asking these questions, as this is all quite well known.

Shani Louk - yes I did mean her. What happened was horrific, and the photos were awful.

It doesn't make sense.

It's upsetting ... I'm sorry to anyone badly affected by the turn this thread has taken. I really hope @MNHQ do not tolerate this implication that these women would lie about rape when there is so much evidence even though this one poster continues to deny it.

Hamas don't represent Muslim values & I'm sure that Hamas broke those values many times on 7/10/23 with their murderous rampage.

"make more sense" is incredibly rude and inflammatory.
As far as I know Hamas said in news interviews in the ME which were not aired in the west that the video had not been released by them and that all that you saw was false flag. The same for the decapitated babies.

I am telling you what was said. Your rudeness to me is completely unacceptable.

@magneticclocks There is nothing inflammatory or rude to say 'make it make sense'. Your posts OTOH are certainly inflammatory. Stop repeating lies.

I feel exactly the same way, to be honest. I am appalled and disgusted at your posts and would not be able to say what I thought as I am trying to stay polite.

Nothing I have posted should appall or disgust you. I stand by every word I have posted on this thread.

There is no implication that women lied about rape, as has been stated numerous times, and you saying that is incredibly disingenuous. I hope that MNHQ will realise that.

"should"?!

Yes that is true, but the report which is linked above said that there had been no evidence, so no evidence from dead bodies either. They said this would normally be investigated by forensics as a matter of course.

But there weren’t only hostages, were there?
You yourself mentioned Shani Louk whose body was paraded around the streets in Gaza and several people saw it and spat on it. There were also others like her.
That’s why it doesn’t make sense to say people in Gaza assumed Hamas had only taken hostages. Plenty of them would have seen the mutilated bodies.

What about this...what about that...etc etc etc.

I have pushed back at the claims of no rape. I've not waffled on about various other issues and won't be redirected or deflected from the no rapes claim. Again, there were rapes.

You can keep quoting what Hamas said as much as you want. You can keep deflecting onto other issues, as much as you wish; however, both men and women were raped. That day was appalling and it happened, it will not be denied or forgotten. Hence various posters challenging you. I don't know other posters and I dont post or belong to 'a group', just because people don't agree with you doesn't make us wrong.

I am completely baffled by this thread. Usually I can skim through and understand. But I'm not sure what point @magneticclocks is trying to make.

She claims Abi W (the Green Party Woman as you call her) posted tweets which basically said the same thing as the professionals who were appointed to investigate rape after Oct 7. That the professionals had said that there had not been evidence provided, that they had asked Israel for evidence and nothing had been given, and that there was very little evidence at all and nothing which suggested that rape had been systemic
So there is 'very little evidence [of rape, one assumes], which would imply that perhaps the multiple accounts of rape cannot all have been true. But then
There is no implication that women lied about rape, as has been stated numerous times, and you saying that is incredibly disingenuous.

The Parliamentary Commission report, which Magnetic claims to have read, states, By total contrast, our Report details that horrific acts of systematic rape and sexual abuse took place, in contradiction to Koranic teaching (p.5)

There are also accounts that hostages were sexually assaulted.

Err no... the Green Party woman said that there was no evidence and no victims had come forward
Well, she was spouting lies then, wasn't she? Either that or she is completely blinkered. Neither is a good look in someone with political influence.

I agree. Very contradicting comments. They didn’t rape because it goes against their beliefs 😂ridiculous claim. Fortunately for the deniers they filmed themselves on their raping, killing jolly and were celebrated for their victory/achievements (insert appropriate adjective).

Honestly, I've heard it all now. 🙄

Lots of things are against the beliefs of muslims, but they still happen! Do you seriously believe that no person who is a Muslim, has ever gone against their religious beliefs?

Just as things are against the beliefs of other religions, but they still happen, people of other religions also go against their particular beliefs.

Which one? The one saying there had been rapes or the one saying there had been rapes?

One report

i) the magnitude of the situation, characterized by a large number of casualties in dispersed crime scenes involving multiple perpetrators in a context of active combat situation for several days; ii) a context in which various forms of violence occurred, with extensive brutality, including postmortem mutilation and booby-trapping of corpses; iii) the high number of bodies with destructive burn damage, which made the identification of potential crimes of sexual violence impossible; iv) the prioritization of rescue operations and the recovery, identification, and burial of the deceased in accordance with religious practices over the collection of forensic evidence,

As in other conflict-affected contexts, there remains a significant likelihood that the findings of the mission team, in terms of verified violations, only partially reflect the crimes actually committed.

The other report

When examining this group of first-hand survivors, one should bear in mind that the vast majority of those who were sexually assaulted were among the 1,166 who were murdered in the attack and therefore silenced forever.