To think most people would judge keeping this money

[JustAnotherWhinger]

Legally this person is perfectly entitled to keep the money. That’s not the debate. The debate is they are very offended that a few people (several of their family and some friends) have judged them for doing so as morally is very off.

A joint account was set up with a large amount of money (over 25k) between a person who was dying and their cousin. The reason for this was because their cousin had agreed to be guardian for their 3yo child. It was to ensure there was plenty of money about until things like pensions, insurances and probate were all sorted and in place.

However, after 8 weeks living with the Mum and DC the cousin realised they were not cut out to look after a 3yo.

The 3yo is now settled with their mum’s cousin from the other side of the family (in the interest of honesty - that cousin is me). They have contact with the original person one day a month. They are settled here and everything is all settled legally.

When our cousin died a very short time after (literally a few weeks) the joint account transferred solely to her cousin. That’s the legal position and legally it’s their money. However, a couple of their relatives (I don’t even really know them well) are now kicking up a stink about the fact they’ve still got the money and haven’t given it to us to care for the DC or put the money into an account in the DC’s name.

I was asked my opinion and said imo most people would judge that the money was for looking after the child so shouldn’t be kept by the original planned carer.

I’m not over fussed as we don’t need the money and the DC was well set up by their Mummy.
However, I do think it’s poor character to have kept it.

and for clarity - they are not over short of money. They didn’t give up or change their job in the plans to care for the DC (childcare was booked). There’s been no financial disadvantage to them.

This was my thought too, it’ll be the easiest way to see where she’s at. Also there is no rush (I guess it’s possible that she’s grieving as I don’t know how long ago this all was and it must have been hard emotionally for her too - obviously I don’t know the situation, but as it’s clear OP has no urgent need for the money it’s worth considering)

So why are their family in uproar and disgusted at their behaviour? Why haven’t they made it clear to their family this is their intention. Why haven’t they put the £25k in the child’s trust?

From what OP has outlined, they have just taken the money and hoped it would be forgotten about.

I’m honestly flabbergasted at this. Not much surprises me on MN, but my goodness, this is just disgusting. Stealing from a bereaved toddler is just so low

This. The money should be handed over for the child.

That is absolutely disgusting behaviour…they have no morals.

Money aside, thank you for taking this little one into your family. It must have been a great comfort to your cousin.

I agree to send this to start off, with a deadline.

your poor dead cousin. She sounds like a lovely mummy. I’m sure you’ll help to keep her memory alive with her child.

every other family member must disinherit thief cousin

I’m gobsmacked reading this. She’s essentially defrauded a dying woman, introduced a huge amount of stress to her in her last days, so that she could steal from an orphaned 3 year old.

You should at least be able to leverage social stigma here.

Lay it out as I have here and let her know that her friends, colleagues and everyone really would find that abhorrent.

How much money are we talking?

Edit: actually the PP wrote a superb letter template. Use that!

You must be going for the most unanimous YANBU in the whole history of AIBU with this one OP!

I wouldn’t settle until I had that money back in the hands of the child for their future. Yes her mum may have left her enough to get by on but what the other cousin has done is appalling! I can’t believe how chilled out you are. £25k is a lot of money and it was clearly left for the child, not as a parting gift to her cousin. Imagine how she’d feel if she knew, I bet she would be devastated. I would make the cousins life very difficult and make it known what I thought of her!

At least it’s very clear that, while it may not have been Plan A, your cousin’s child is definitely in the care of the right guardian. God only knows what a cash cow the other despicable cousin would have treated this child as.

This is awful, the other cousin is morally repugnant

It's absolutely disgusting that she's kept it and she ought to be thoroughly ashamed of herself.

So sorry to hear this, OP.

Not that you need it confirming, but just to chime in that your lawyers are fully correct. We had a situation where an elderly parent opened a joint account with one of their children many years before their death, which had their pension being paid into it, to help with paying bills etc when they (eventually) became incapable of doing so, and for those specific monies to ultimately go to that child (as the child in question was their carer). That time inevitably came, the child managed all the bills etc and continued to solely care for their parent for many more years. Parent eventually died. The joint account and its contents became the child's sole account. There was a lot of consternation amongst the child's siblings that this formerly joint account was not being passed into the estate to be distributed. We were advised by several contentious probate lawyers that this is the legal position - joint accounts do not form part of the deceased's estate - only accounts in sole names do.

The other siblings, who did not lift a finger to look after their parent by the way and left all the caring to the joint account child, threatened all sorts of legal action, before they realised it was futile.

So a bit of a warning to anyone else seeing this too - think carefully about opening joint accounts for this sort of purpose, and be clear about your intentions should something happen to you (or them).

Again OP I'm so sorry this has happened and yes this person in question is morally disgusting.

Legal maybe but utterly deplorable if they decide to keep that money. Really the plan was for it to essentially be held in trust for the benefit of the child.

I think what I would do in your shoes is meet them and just ask neutrally first what way they want to approach the money they are holding in trust for the dc. And then see what they say. Whether there is an arrangement for you to be paid a monthly maintenance for things for the dc while you are providing their care or whether you work together to put the money in a trust account for the child in their own name to access when they're older. And I'd see what they say. More flies with honey and all that and this is clearly a sensitive situation.

If they double down I'd be trying to identify someone in their own family who's opinion would matter to them and ask for their help. If you don't need the money I'd actually take yourself out of it and go with the suggestion of the money being put in the child's name so it's protected for their use for long term things like a car house or uni etc. That way it doesn't look like you're trying to gain from it in any way and you might get further?

I'd be thinking he intentionally exploited a dying woman for money. It seems there was no attempt from them to actually care for the child, just sent child elsewhere and kept the money. The money should be for the child. Absolute scumbag, I'd want nothing to do with them again if they were my family member.

This.

OP there are grounds sometimes where you can dispute the joint bank account survivorship rule - it can be difficult and costly but you could speak with a solicitor. This is particularly the case if you can prove that there was a clear intention for the money, or sometimes if someone was ‘coerced’ into making an account. If the account was opened very recently the case would be even stronger - are there any forms of official communication anywhere between all parties regarding what the money was originally intended for?

My DH is currently in the process of fighting a joint account survivorship rule; although thankfully not dealing with intentional/spiteful circumstances, but rather an unfortunate administrative error.

Disgusting they have stolen the money meant for a child and their expenses

also think them not looking after the child is bad form. Did they not think it would be hard work/esp as child will be grieving their mum
as Well.

poor little 3yr. Glad they have you who I hope will love and cherish them

This. I don’t know why op is skirting round the issue of what the other cousin has actually had to say on the matter. Theres all this talk of angry relatives but what has the money grabber actually said to justify their position? What have they actually said when someone has said that they money should go to the caregiver?

That money is for the child in every single possible way apart from legal. If it wasn't needed for the care of the child, it would do well invested for them until they are an adult.

YANBU and there should be a reckoning within the family to pressure the cousin into doing the right thing. I'm a very measured and mild person but I wouldn't be if this were a relative of mine. She stole from a kid who has just lost her mother. That's fucking despicable.

I am so very sorry that you're having to think about this, on top of everything else.

They’ve said nothing beyond “it’s my account now”. Absolutely nothing else and ignores any questions.

Stealing from a company you work for is totally different from stealing from a bereaved child.

And this isn’t even secret stealing, like finding a wallet and not handing it in. This is out in the open, everyone knows she’s taken the money that was given to her for childcare costs, of a child she chose not to look after. Even if her private conscience allowed it, most people would be too embarrassed to do it if others would know.

I stand by my assertion that very very very few people would do what this woman has done.

I can see why people are saying they’d stop contact, but that’s not something I’m prepared to do atm.

This is someone they’ve seen regularly their whole wee life. Having lost their Mummy, lost their home, had to move nursery and adjust to living in our busy house (I have 6 children, 4 still living at home) I’m not going to remove another familiar part of their life at this point. They’ve had enough to deal with in the last 8/9 months (longer including the time when they were still with their mummy but things were changing as she was ill).

Deleted - cross posted with OP who answered

To be clear, my comment about cutting the person out of my life applies to me as a bystander seeing this go on, not advice or judgement about what you should do for your cousin's child. Best of luck to you.

The action of this cousin is truly disgusting. I mean, wtaf. Its no wonder members of the family are raging. If they don't give it over, I hope karma gets her in a big way.