To think most people would judge keeping this money

[JustAnotherWhinger]

Legally this person is perfectly entitled to keep the money. That’s not the debate. The debate is they are very offended that a few people (several of their family and some friends) have judged them for doing so as morally is very off.

A joint account was set up with a large amount of money (over 25k) between a person who was dying and their cousin. The reason for this was because their cousin had agreed to be guardian for their 3yo child. It was to ensure there was plenty of money about until things like pensions, insurances and probate were all sorted and in place.

However, after 8 weeks living with the Mum and DC the cousin realised they were not cut out to look after a 3yo.

The 3yo is now settled with their mum’s cousin from the other side of the family (in the interest of honesty - that cousin is me). They have contact with the original person one day a month. They are settled here and everything is all settled legally.

When our cousin died a very short time after (literally a few weeks) the joint account transferred solely to her cousin. That’s the legal position and legally it’s their money. However, a couple of their relatives (I don’t even really know them well) are now kicking up a stink about the fact they’ve still got the money and haven’t given it to us to care for the DC or put the money into an account in the DC’s name.

I was asked my opinion and said imo most people would judge that the money was for looking after the child so shouldn’t be kept by the original planned carer.

I’m not over fussed as we don’t need the money and the DC was well set up by their Mummy.
However, I do think it’s poor character to have kept it.

and for clarity - they are not over short of money. They didn’t give up or change their job in the plans to care for the DC (childcare was booked). There’s been no financial disadvantage to them.

This is very sad. I don't know if your cousin knew in her final weeks that the original cousin guardian changed her mind and didn't want to be a guardian any more. I hope if so that it didn't give her any stress.
I hope the 3 year old goes on to have a happy life with you OP. Well done for stepping up. It is better for the kid to be with someone who wants him/her, so I suppose it's for the best that the original cousin guardian admitted that she wasn't cut out for it. I hope she gives the money back to where it should be.

I’m pretty experienced in the real world, in particular in assessing risk of theft/ fraud. Theft of money is a mixture of situation and opportunity, not morals.

That’s why there are so many people who work for companies long term then just start stealing from them one day. It’s recognised that people can steal when under stress and pressure, which is why people working in finance are credit checked- someone with debt pressure is more likely to defraud and that’s due to desperation, not a lack of morals.

We’re all human. morals are things we like to believe in to solidify our values or place in society. But the human brain reacts more similarly to situations than you would expect.

eta- before you say the person didn’t have financial pressures- that’s just an easy to understand but more extreme example of why people’s moral stance might change. For many, the opportunity will just be too much to resist

That sounds like £25k in legal fees...

So this person says they will adopt the orphaned child, then decide to renege on the arrangements after a mere 8 weeks but then keep the money set aside to help with the costs of caring for the child.

You have to ask them for the money and probably helps if you make it clear the money is going directly to the child.

If they don't give the child the money then they are the vilest of the vile, lower than a snakes belly, utter scum.

I'm not as convinced as you are, that the money itself definitely can't be claimed by the other party.

Although it is complicated, and is possible to be the case.

She did know. It made her last few weeks very stressful. which is why lots of people in the original guardians family are very, very, very angry.

There was a lot of stress and sorting paperwork and things to be done. It was particularly hard as it meant the DC had to move as we have other children so couldn’t move, but thankfully my cousin was able to spend a week with us before going to the hospice and could see how loved her DC was.

as someone who had parents who should never have been parents I do think it was a good thing to say asap “I can’t do this”, but it did make that time very stressful for everyone, and I get why people are furious.

Probate lawyer, specialist probate lawyer, the financial specialist who set up the other trusts, the second financial specialist asked for a second opinion and several other financial professionals (including those who warmed my cousin about this very possibility) who have had full view of the entire account and situation are convinced.

So I am happy and convinced that the legal angle is as I’ve been advised.

Thank you for all the opinions.

Very much food for thought on going forward.

Still not clear from you message why she feels its her money and should not be forwarded to child ? What is her side of this story ?

It’s beyond disgusting. What a terrible person they are. I would ask for it formally and explore legal advice on the off chance you can retrieve it for the little one. Stealing from a bereaved toddler is a new low.

Argh. I guess the mother was too preoccupied, being so very seriously ill, to do the necessary work to transfer the money, which of course is totally understandable... it's amazing she was as efficient as she was. Perhaps she just assumed her cousin couldn't possibly be so wicked as to keep the money despite what it was clearly intended for.

Never, ever, ever assume that people will be honourable about inheritance and the like. It does such weird things to people. If you want to leave something to someone, make it legally watertight and make sure nobody, including a spouse or future spouse, can get in the way.

Not sure what you expect us to say, OP. It was a poorly set up arrangement which was quite likely to go wrong, and it did. The cousin should have handed over the money but she didn't and nobody can make her.

We would appreciate if you could transfer the money his mother set aside for his care to his account

I wouldn't suggest the OP says this, because it would sound like the OP was saying "that's my money, I'm looking after the child now".

The person is highly likely to dig their heals in and not transfer the money.

imo it would be better if the OP asks for the money to be transferred directly to an account in the child's name, for the child to benefit from in the future. That way, it makes it abundantly clear that if the person keeps the money they are actually stealing from the child.

This wins today's 'just when you thought humans couldn't behave any worse along comes evidence they can' thread.
Not sure I could keep as calm as OP in this situation.

Your cousin is a disgrace and it would serve her right if the family cut her out of their lives altogether. What possible reason could she have for keeping it now she no longer has custody of the child?

Wow, this is abhorrent behaviour. How can the other cousin live with herself, she’s absolutely despicable.

Fine, she realised (a bit bloody late in the day) that she couldn’t become the child’s guardian. Not ideal and I can only imagine the worry it caused for your cousin in her last few weeks. But to then make off with £25k of money meant for this child… I mean, I have no words.

I hope the money brings her nothing but bad luck.

(and for the love of all things holy, will posters stop telling OP to check the legality of the joint account situation. She’s done that, numerous experts have done that… give it a rest!)

But surely that is exactly what @Trusttheawesomeness was saying to the OP? She said pay it into 'his account', not 'your own account'!

It may be legal, but it is morally repugnant.

I’m very sorry for your loss.
I would second PPs suggestions of asking for it in a matter of fact way for it to be put in a trust fund for the child. As that makes it crystal clear while removing any emotional turmoil (for you).
I guess realistically if she hasn’t transferred by now the odds are slim though, so I’m not sure I’d overly invest emotionally if you have explored the legal avenues, you have enough on your plate. Best wishes for the future 💐

This is one of the saddest posts I have read in a long time. That poor child. At least she's living with people who love and care for her. But your (living) cousin is a scoundrel. I accept you have investigated all the legal angles, but there's not a person on earth who would think this behaviour is even remotely acceptable, or that anyone else would believe it to be so. The poor mum as well. Dying, trying frantically to put plans in place for her very young child and knowing she and her child have been screwed over by family.

Yes and I've apologised to the OP for me misunderstanding. Is that ok?

While I can understand people being angry with the person who backed out it is actually better for the child not to be with someone who would struggle. Op I hope in the trusts that have been set up there is provision for you to move to a larger house. When my child was young my will would have permitted trustees to sell my home and purchase a house for them and their guardians to live in until my child was 18.

Obviously it's morally wrong for the person who backed out to keep money unless they were out of pocket. You may have more chance of reclaiming some of it for the child's benefit if there is something specific you would spend it on. Do you need a larger car, would it allow you to add space to your home? It is possible they will hand money back when they see that this placement is not breaking down.

The first cousin with the money might not be spending the money but simply keeping it aside for when the child grows up.
the first cousin might realise only too well that things don’t always work out as planned and be keeping the money plan B for the child.

If that were the case then she’s have told everyone that and set up a trust. She hasn’t and the OP says that the wider family is angry with her and it’s all going round now, because she is keeping the money for herself.

In which case she won't mind transferring it to an account set up for the child to access when they come of age. A trust fund or something.