To think most people would judge keeping this money

[JustAnotherWhinger]

Legally this person is perfectly entitled to keep the money. That’s not the debate. The debate is they are very offended that a few people (several of their family and some friends) have judged them for doing so as morally is very off.

A joint account was set up with a large amount of money (over 25k) between a person who was dying and their cousin. The reason for this was because their cousin had agreed to be guardian for their 3yo child. It was to ensure there was plenty of money about until things like pensions, insurances and probate were all sorted and in place.

However, after 8 weeks living with the Mum and DC the cousin realised they were not cut out to look after a 3yo.

The 3yo is now settled with their mum’s cousin from the other side of the family (in the interest of honesty - that cousin is me). They have contact with the original person one day a month. They are settled here and everything is all settled legally.

When our cousin died a very short time after (literally a few weeks) the joint account transferred solely to her cousin. That’s the legal position and legally it’s their money. However, a couple of their relatives (I don’t even really know them well) are now kicking up a stink about the fact they’ve still got the money and haven’t given it to us to care for the DC or put the money into an account in the DC’s name.

I was asked my opinion and said imo most people would judge that the money was for looking after the child so shouldn’t be kept by the original planned carer.

I’m not over fussed as we don’t need the money and the DC was well set up by their Mummy.
However, I do think it’s poor character to have kept it.

and for clarity - they are not over short of money. They didn’t give up or change their job in the plans to care for the DC (childcare was booked). There’s been no financial disadvantage to them.

I think much in the way that single parents sometimes don't go after their deadbeat exs for money out of pride/trying to prove something/claiming they don't need it - not going after this cousin to try and get the money back (by shaming her morally) would be letting your/this child down.
Those single parents are missing the point that their child(ren) is entitled to the money and you are now all this poor little three year old has. Its not about whether you're hard up financially. Consider what you will say to them when they are 18 and find out about the nitty gritty- it would surely be better to be able to say you fought hard and did everything you could than to say you just let this cousin walk away scotfree because you didn't need the money/didn't fancy the hassle/didn't feel particularly strongly about it. The odds of this child growing up to NOT feel strongly about this are very very slim.

Time to start applying social pressure.

Acknowledgement was not recieved.

She evidently has no morals.

You shouldn’t have to bully her into giving the child the child’s funds - should you.
Wasn’t a question.

People like this infuriate me - make me beyond furious.

The thing is, you were not privy to the discussions between your cousin and “joint account holder cousin” about the money in the account.

And your cousin, outside of this final incident with their other cousin, may have not minded that person using the £25k hence adding them on the joint account to begin with. They surely would be mindful of the risk of the money being used by their cousin and not on the child, because that’s what joint account holders can do with the privilege of being a joint account holder. Your cousin opted for this set up regardless of risk.

ultimately you need to support your cousin’s choice - they wouldn’t have trusted their child with just anyone, the two cousins likely were close whereby the deceased wasn’t overly concerned about where that money ended up. As you say, it wasn’t their priority to sort out the money before death after joint account holder cousin changed their mind. So if they were willing to write it off, you can’t really argue much here because it was your cousin’s choice.

obviously it’s different if you feel your cousin was taken advantage of, and was manipulated into this set up. Then you can contact the police.

Presumably the child involved would be getting the most of the will in terms of inheritance. So hopefully they would receive financial support.

You should be formally asking them for the money to go back into an account in the child’s name. They might not give it to you but you should be doing everything possible to reclaim their money.

Im also unsure why you would want the child to have a relationship with someone that stole money from them. Regardless of the fact they have lost family already, having family that treats you that badly is not good, it just encourages you to put up with any shit.

i can’t believe you are so calm about this.

As you say, thank goodness the cousin realised early that they weren't suited to caring for the child. Even more so now that their bad character has been revealed in this way!

You say that the child has been well set up, but unless it's enough that the child will easily never need to work, then you should absolutely put moral pressure on the cousin to return it so that it can be added to the money left in trust to care for the child then given to them on adulthood.

Properly invested over such a long timescale, that will grow enough to get them a notch further up the housing ladder, or (if unused until then !) a couple of years earlier retirement.

If the child has been left several million already, then it's true that they don't need it. Then I'd consider prioritising the relationship - close family matters - but aiming to make the relationship healthy and work for the child. So, not just leave it unsaid - since that will fester, and guilt will make that cousin pull away from the child.

You'd have to be explicit and say to the cousin that you're happy for her to keep that money in order to cover her expenses in being a 'special person' to the child over their whole childhood, because their relationship is important enough that the mother intended for her to be the carer. You say you live a distance away, so it covers travel, hotels, outings with the child etc - for frequent visits over the whole childhood. Give her a chance to step up to that commitment, and if she agrees then tell the whole family that's the situation so that the judgement and guilt which would get in the way of the relationship goes.

A bereaved child needs many layers of security. It could be that at a later date - perhaps as a teenager - the relationship built with this cousin provides another level of support. And that might be worth the money, if it's a drop in the ocean.

But I'd only do this if the child was very, very well provided for financially. Otherwise it's clearly theft from the child.

I think you need to ask for it back. Even if you ask for it to be transferred to an account in the DCs name. It doesn’t matter whether the DC needs it now in 20 years they may want to top their house deposit etc.

The fact that they’ve kept it speaks volumes about their character.

I would guess that the cousin has spent some of it, and is embarrassed, so is just ignoring the situation.

So, I would text her asking her to send you the money less any expenses. That will potentially let you recoup at least some of it for spending on the child.

Is this cousin close to the bereaved child! Does the DC have a close relationship with them?

Morally the money is for the child, and shouldn’t be kept by the cousin.

This is dreadful. You’ve had advice about the legal position but that does not prevent you from pursuing it on the clear moral entitlement. I would absolutely request it, and fairly soon before it gets spent. I know you can do without it, but presumably there’s no way that’s what the deceased would have wanted. This was money for her child/her child’s guardian. I would make a disingenuous request to give her a way out. Make it like she was always going to transfer it but has kindly looked after it on behalf of the little one. Apologise for not providing bank details.

You should formally ask it of her. Morally she’s an absolute stinking pond scum. Imagine profiting after having ditched the 3yo orphan the money was to look after. Ask her for it publicly on Facebook and the group WhatsApps. Shame the fuck out of her. I have a just turned 4yo and I would do all of the above.

this ‘close family’ doesn’t matter at all to the child. The op should make sure the child grows up knowing they have lots of loving family but that particular woman should not be trusted as far as you can throw her.

OP, don't let this fester any longer. Compose and send an email today.

Keeping this money is unconscionable. They clearly have no intention of giving it back, and as you have checked, isn't legally obliged to do so. But no damn way would I just leave this - even if you don't need the money.

You are raising this little one as your own now so you owe it to them to try and get this money back. You also need to ensure this person isn't in the LO's life any longer than need be - regardless of outcome with the money.

Human nature utterly mystifies me at times.

I’ll trust the experts who’ve overseen the whole estate, and situation, over someone online with a brief snippet of it thanks!

Thanks for the opinions.

I’m going to have a good think on the best way to approach the situation and go from there.

You're approaching this from a position of strength. But a 3 year old orphan is very, very vulnerable. I'm not surprised that the mother didn't take the money back and risk further rupture with the other cousin. Despite letting them down, that cousin is still a safety net, and the money is a bit of a guilt hold.

It may well have been instinctive rather than calculated, but I imagine the mother cast as many safety nets for her child as she possibly could - knowing that she wouldn't be there to catch any falls or set up any more protections ever again. It's pretty heartbreaking.

What if the OP dies? She has older children who would probably care for a 3 year old full sibling, if the 3yo was OP's. But would they make the same sacrifices for their mum's cousin's child? Missing out on socialising in their 20s, perhaps turning down a career opportunity which requires a move... even for full siblings, it's hit and miss tbh - but the bond to a cousin is weaker.

Or if the child's relationship with OP breaks down at some point? The child has had a serious ACE in losing their only parent. There are likely to be emotional consequences to that.

The OP is in a very different position to the child's mother in those last few weeks. She knows that she can adjust things if they don't work out, put other things in place, and look out for the child over time. But it's still responsible of her to recognise the child's higher vulnerability, and also to recognise that things don't have to be perfect in order to be better than the alternatives.

An expert wouldn’t comment without being privy to the documentation, an overview of the entire situation and having time to review it all

Completely agree with this. Legalities aside, what cousin has done is absolutely deplorable. “It’s my account now”?? If I was a family member there’s no way I could be in contact with somebody who is this low and they’d be right to be furious and go NC.

You absolutely need to tell your cousin to give you that money. It belongs to the child. By not doing so and still allowing the cousin to see the child, what are you teaching them? Someone can absolutely screw you over but that’s ok as they’re family?! The child doesn’t need people like that in their life.

Say she either does the right thing or threaten to out her on social media/ the press. The threat might be enough without having to go through the drama of actually doing it.

Wow. There are so many grey areas in life morally, but this is not one of them. Completely and utterly morally reprehensible of the cousin.

I can completely see why the DC's mum did this - she wanted them to have financial ease in the initial aftermath and of course she trusted the cousin, she was going to leave her beloved child with them!

I understand why you don't want to cut off DC from the cousin, but I think I would say to the cousin, as child gets older and more settled, it will be a consideration, as she clearly can't be trusted to have child's best interests at heart.

Which is true. Yes the little one needs stability at the moment. But as she settles, she will need people who really and truly care for her. Not adult who will throw her under the bus for their own self interest.

I have just been thinking about the little one in all this. My heart aches for her loss, her inner sense of bewilderment and forever changed childhood.

3 is such a precious age too, so how anyone can look at her having taken the money meant to care for her, is beyond my comprehension. Unless she has inherited multiple millions from her mums estate, this cousin is a down and out bad un.

OP, you seem like a good and honourable person. Thank goodness the little girl has you. Don't let this go, even if it's futile, there is a duty to your late cousin here to get this money returned to its rightful owner.

For the child's sake this person with no morals should be kept away.

For sanity keeping that person away is the best idea.

I completely understand this reasoning but I would also be extremely concerned about this little girl falling into the hands of the other cousin should, god forbid, anything happen to the OP.

That cousin not only decided that she couldn't cope with the child (so no reason to suppose she'd be a good care giver later either), not only was comfortable making huge commitments only to back out at the last second, but she has shown herself to be the sort of person who will get her hands on all the little girl's assets and bit-by-bit expand the boundaries of what she justifies taking for herself. If she ended up being trustee of the girl's more extensive funds I can see her being the sort of person who justifies to herself things like paying off her own mortgage "so the child has stability" or treating her entire family to luxury holidays "so that the child has experiences" etc.

I agree that one of the OP's aims should be to build up additional potentially carers just in case (as with any parent) but I wouldn't include this other cousin in that list of potentials!