To think most people would judge keeping this money

[JustAnotherWhinger]

Legally this person is perfectly entitled to keep the money. That’s not the debate. The debate is they are very offended that a few people (several of their family and some friends) have judged them for doing so as morally is very off.

A joint account was set up with a large amount of money (over 25k) between a person who was dying and their cousin. The reason for this was because their cousin had agreed to be guardian for their 3yo child. It was to ensure there was plenty of money about until things like pensions, insurances and probate were all sorted and in place.

However, after 8 weeks living with the Mum and DC the cousin realised they were not cut out to look after a 3yo.

The 3yo is now settled with their mum’s cousin from the other side of the family (in the interest of honesty - that cousin is me). They have contact with the original person one day a month. They are settled here and everything is all settled legally.

When our cousin died a very short time after (literally a few weeks) the joint account transferred solely to her cousin. That’s the legal position and legally it’s their money. However, a couple of their relatives (I don’t even really know them well) are now kicking up a stink about the fact they’ve still got the money and haven’t given it to us to care for the DC or put the money into an account in the DC’s name.

I was asked my opinion and said imo most people would judge that the money was for looking after the child so shouldn’t be kept by the original planned carer.

I’m not over fussed as we don’t need the money and the DC was well set up by their Mummy.
However, I do think it’s poor character to have kept it.

and for clarity - they are not over short of money. They didn’t give up or change their job in the plans to care for the DC (childcare was booked). There’s been no financial disadvantage to them.

I'd give up if I were you; it seems that quite a few posters are determined to ignore the fact that it was a joint account and what that means from a legal point of view, and are going to keep saying things like 'Can't you go to court and say there was a trust or something'.

Tbh a joint account in such circumstances isn't necessarily a bad idea if there are a lot of other assets that the child can be supported with long-term (and which are placed in some sort of trust). It provides a handy slush fund from which to quickly pay short-term expenses. The potential snag is obviously that it relies on the other party to the account being honourable, and not a morally bankrupt shyster as appears to be the case here.

I’m happy to admit that at times, I’m not the most moral person, and I can be a bit more selfish than I’d like to admit in real life. But I think this is truly abhorrent. Especially as OP says they aren’t short of money, so it’s not like they have starving children of their own and are about to be made homeless and so are rationalising that their children need it more.

I think I would just work on the basis that the cousin who has the money simply doesn't have your details to send the money over (they may have but lets play nice).

If you have their email or postal address, I would just drop them a line and say you understand they are holding circa XXX for the benefit of (childs name) and as they are no longer the guardian, can they please transfer the monies and give them your account details. Be nice and polite and see where it goes from there. If posting it, send by recorded delivery.

As see what comes back and act accordingly. You may not need the money but its the childs by right, however legally, I am not sure you can evidence it so just try asking and see what comes back.

I don't know what you could actually do about it, but is there any chance your cousin told paternal cousin that she was looking for someone to take guardianship of DC and that whoever did it would be well set up with money to help and therefore paternal cousin said yes in the full knowledge she wouldn't be taking the child on?

Even if she said yes with the best intentions, the fact she didn't think it through properly (sounds like someone contemplating a puppy and changing their mind rather than considering the realities of taking on a bereft 3 year old!) AND pulled out so late AND kept the money is just beyond deplorable.

OP, you sound amazing and doing everything right, with the child’s best interests at heart. Hats off to you.

I’d be beyond furious with the cousin who kept the money and I’d be making sure the entire family knew about it. Perhaps a bit of peer pressure and some home truths from her own family might talk some sense into her? If that cousin was my own sibling/child I’d be questioning whether I could entertain a relationship with them while they kept the money, as they’ve shown their true colours. Legally it might be hers but completely under false pretences and morally is for the upbringing of that child.

I'm sorry for your loss and that the poor child has lost their mummy.

As for the cousin with the cash, well they have behaved appallingly and I am not surprised the wider family is furious.

Lack of moral capacity and integrity.
I was left (in will) a house and quite a bit of money ... when they thought they might die (they did) they mentioned they might want to change their will if that was the case. I said just tell me what you want ... I voluntarily gave up the house and half the money. I was very proud that I had fulfilled somebody's dying wish.

I do think as guardian of the child you should request the money, in writing, explaining that the mother left the money for the child ... not for them.
You can then put it aside if you wish for something special from their mum as they get older.
If you dont get the money there is nothing else you can do.

I had wondered this as well. Perhaps the money was the driver but she couldn't actually go through with the reality, so backed out?

She must be desperate to risk so much backlash from her own family. Maybe she's deep in debt or a gambling addiction?

I still think you should ask for the money and go nuclear if she says no or you don't hear back.

As other PPs have said, you absolutely should formally request the money for the child. This is one of the most disgraceful things I’ve read on here in a long time. The cousin keeping that money is outrageous. Little wonder family members are disgusted and angry. OP, you might not need that money but you should pursue it for the child.

Legally, of course, it's a joint account. One account holder has passed, so the other account holder gets everything.

The reason so many people are saying it can't be right, has it been checked etc is because morally it stinks that cousin has simply pocketed the money.

Cousin must be as stubborn as a mule to not see the optics on this. I hope cousin's family have some influence.

Disgraceful.

I'd be sending a scathing letter, telling everyone about what she has done (I'd even consider telling her employer), and then egg her house.

Scum of the earth.

Keeping this money is a decision that will be a cancer in a person’s soul. The damage to their mental health over time is likely to be profound. If not, there is something fundamentally broken in them.

setting up a slush account with a trusted family member at the end of life is common. Elderly people do it to cover incidentals before and after their death. Why wouldn’t the mother trust the person she trusted to raise her child with this money.

Honestly I think you do need to ask for the money. Politely but firmly.

She may well not give it back, but you need to ask both for the poor bereaved child, and for yourself. I think it's important to know you did what you could to hold this horrible cousin to account..

In terms of this cousin being in the child's life, I'm amazed she has the balls to turn up when she's done this - how can she have a normal time with the child when she knows she's stealing their money?

Also, on top of the money she has caused a lot of stress and hassle for other people by her change of mind. To then make this worse by totally unnecessarily stealing this money? I'm not sure the child will benefit long term from having someone like this in their life. They will likely find out about this behaviour when they're older too.

You're doing a totally wonderful thing OP. I'm so glad you're in this poor little child's life.

Thanks for replying, and I’m sorry your own childhood was difficult. I’m sure that it’s given you a sense of empathy though and helps you relate to your young charge. You’re doing a lovely thing and I hope you will both have long and happy lives.

FWIW I think your cousin’s cousin is wrong to keep the money, but there may be something else going on for them that has meant they’ve just pushed it away and refused to deal with it. It’s unfair of them but may not be bad intent. I hope not anyway. You should definitely try to raise it with them.

If you stir the nest and try and get the money from the cousin is there a danger that they might want the 2 year old 'back' ? And then you end up with some hideous tussle over a two year old who has gone through loads anyway, when taking the high ground and letting others attempt to guilt the cousin into passing over the money might be less tumultuous for you?

Think I'd be seething though. And cut down the visitations /drop the rope.

Although the two year old needs as many people in their lives who love them as possible. May be think about what the conversation will be like in 15/20 years time when the child twigs what's happened/it comes out.

@JustAnotherWhinger as you've re-iterated, the "crap" cousin is legally entitled to the 25k

How on earth they can justify, morally, in keeping the money, which ultimately was for the benefit of the deceased Mum's child, is beyond comprehension.

Even more so that "crap" cousin (CC) felt that even though she would not fulfil the original terms of the agreement, i.e. she no longer wanted to look after the wee one (but would still keep the money) which subsequently, has now fallen upon you.

Morally bankrupt and vile.

You should most certainly exert as much pressure, from all those whose opinions may matter the most to CC, be that their parents, family, other relatives or friends.

I understand that in the grand scheme that neither, you nor the wee one, are really financially impacted but it's the absolute gall of them thinking that there's nothing wrong with what they've done.

They should hing their heid in shame @JustAnotherWhinger, unbelievable!!

NAL but shouldn't the bank account form part of the deceased's estate if it was in joint names when they died?

Legally, it's actually NOT their money. So this is theft.

It was held in trust by them for the child. Just because money is in an account in your nave does not automatically make it yours.

It is their money legally. As I’ve explained numerous times in the thread.

No. Joint accounts like this belong to the surviving named person on the death of the other.

No. For all that I don’t agree with how they handled the situation I do believe they fully intended to care for the DC.

It was just too much to cope with as the reality of the situation became more and more apparent.

That side of things was chaotic and stressful, but there was no malice intended in it. That I firmly believe. Perhaps a bit unrealistic about how full-on it would be, but not malicious and not about stealing money as their main intention.

You can explain it as much as you want, but you're wrong, it's not. I have read your posts.

Why are you insisting she's wrong when she has had legal advice from specialists multiple times and they all agree with the legal position?

For you to he that confident, do you have expertise in this area? Genuine question!

Of course they should return the money. They are no longer requiring access to it for its intended purpose. Not to return it is theft imo.