Chat with daughter... Non consensual photo

[BGP]

Chilling with DD 15, tonight. Talking about her BF who is away on holiday. I really like him because he has been the first boy she was chosen who she never felt the need to impress or pose around.

She's always clearly felt very comfortable with him and able to be herself, not all hair and makeup etc.

He's a nice lad, nice family, slightly immature for age (17) and not the brightest but always seemed calm and kind and caring.

She says when he stayed over here (separate rooms) the next morning he went to her room. He fell asleep and then his phone buzzed and she looked. He had taken a photo of her bum while she was asleep, not naked but her PJ's had ridden down. She was upset and angry that he did that when she trusted him.

She's considering breaking up with him.

I don't have an issue with this, and I fully defend her right to privacy and respect, this is not ok.

But a part of me feels sorry for these teen boys. They don't seem to have any proper guidance on how to behave, or on consent. If I had a son I would bloody well make sure he understood, but I watch blokes bigging up the sexualisation of women and girls all the time. It's normalised. How do these young people have a chance at any decent relationships?

What the fuck has happened to all of us? All the social media, lack of real relationships, communication, respect?

I will reiterate I do not condone his behaviour. But I feel sorry for these boys, as a mum of girls. They don't seem to know what to do.

Mums of boys.....what do you think?

I find this really interesting as a 61 year old. My fist boyfriend at 15 was 19. I met him through a lSaturday job I had. He was working, had a car, was a decent boy and my parents liked him. He was seen as being a sensible young man, which he was, and treated me well. All my friends had older boyfriends as the boys our own age were immature in comparison.

I’m surprised at the thought now is that you only date people your own age. My DH is seven years older than me and we married when I was 27 and he was 34. It wasn’t thought of as being weird.

I'm a bit surprised OP that you think teen boys don't have any guidance on consent. I have three teens (well one is 20 now), 2 boys and a girl, and in my experience they cover consent a LOT in PSHE. Far more than our generation ever did.

OP is making so many excuses for the boy that this must be a reverse. I suspect she is the mother of the boy, and the girl's mum went ballistic at her. She is so clearly on his side. There seems to be no protective outrage towards her daughter whatsoever. She's the boy's mum.

Why do you keep defending this young man and think that h’ll learn from this mistake and it wasn’t malicious? Those are phrases that you used. Do you feel sorry for him because he’s from a good family? (AMW proves that it doesn’t matter)

Reality is that he probably views online porn and wanted a photo for his wank bank because using online porn makes people forget about the reality that most of it isn’t consensual and just a tool for ejaculation (if you’re a man) There are forums online where men can post covert photos of women they know or seen irl so that the men can discuss their looks. “Peeping Tom” is a porn fetish too so almost legitimises it to people who view that kind of vile material.

I’ve not seen an explanation of why you allow sleepovers if it’s so innocent and whether you feel some responsibility for creating this opportunity for him to violate her privacy. Your dd has done a great job sticking to a very reasonable boundary.

I am not the boys mum.
I can just see how easy it would be to destroy a boy.
My daughter is my priority. Girls need to be protected.
So many of you have assumed the worst about a young lad that could ruin his whole life, and neither he or she understands this. It is the same for every naughty text message, WhatsApp photo, story they tell a mate that gets around.

I've had a million versions of a million truths from DD and i Will always put her first
But I think when they are so young we can't beat the boys for what we've taught them as a society. It isn't fair to just blame the boy.

Although the boys she's known in the past have been utter shits, this one is just a bit of an idiot

"how easy it would be to destroy a boy"

What a nonsensical thing to say. It's only easy if they do something inappropriate and invasive. Like, for instance, take non-consensual photos of a girl's exposed body! And even then, they get people like you defending them and making excuses.

He's seventeen. At that age he knows full well that he shouldn't be taking a photo of his sleeping girlfriend's bum, he's just playing dumb. When I was seventeen, boys knew not to do that, and my teenage son and his mates know not to do it. It's not that difficult to grasp.

Maybe - maybe - if he's otherwise been respectful, then it was just a lapse in judgement, but it's a very serious lapse if so, and should be treated with a gravity that makes it crystal clear to him that he should never do anything like that again.

Ugh, I can't think of my daughter in the context of porn. But that's how women are viewed every day..

I allow sleepovers because otherwise they would never see each other, they go to different schools and live several miles apart. He has slept over probably 4 times, and she has slept at his house also with his mum and younger siblings present .

I didn't want her to have anything to do with anyone in terms of a relationship, but you can sometimes protest all you like and make it more of an issue.

He is a good kid. He is responsible and respectful. He fucked up.
She has told him, and rightly so.

I will tell him and explain the consequences. He will shit himself and he won't do it again.

I also have his parents numbers but I don't think its necessary to speak to them at this point. I hate mn and think this has been a massive overreaction

YABU to allow her to have him sleeping over at your house when she is just 15 tbh.

Your poor DD. Not even reached the age of consent and her mother is willing to continue allowing into their home a man who took an intimate photo of her without consent. I hope and pray for your DD that there is no escalation from this and he doesn’t end up touching her in her sleep ‘as a joke’. Your DD should be at the absolute centre of your feelings around this, not him.

If it's such a minor thing, why are you posting on mumsnet? What did you expect?

I'd argue he's not as responsible or respectful as you think if he's blatantly overstepping boundaries like this, and then being dismissive about it. He treated your daughter's body like an object, taking an opportunity to get a picture of part of her bottom to keep for...what?

Your poor daughter. You just assume he has no malicious intentions, but how do you know that? Why did he take the picture if he didn't have dodgy intent?

And why are you going on about how you feel so bad for him, and it's so easy to destroy boys, and you feel sorry for them because they're not taught about consent? They know more about consent these days than they ever did!

There's absolutely zero excuse for this sort of behaviour. What happened was that his desire to have a photo of her partially naked bottom (for whatever reason) overrode his respect for her, and his knowledge that he needed consent...and that's not a good bloody excuse.

You seem to be blaming everyone else and want to blame society as a whole, other parents etc.

So, what have you shown your daughter? What is going on in your house? What is your daughter seeing? What are you showing her? Does she have a good father showing how a good man should behave? Have you shown her to expect good behaviour from men?

Its amazing to me that your reaction to this is "poor boy"

Get your priorities right - you're so desperate to see the good in him that you're ignoring his actions and excusing them. I hope your daughter never has to come to you with a more serious relationship problem than this.

He shouldn’t have done it of course, but to be clear it is not a crime to take a photo of someone asleep in PJs.

He’s crossed an important relations and trust boundary and the DD is right to break up with him, but he has not done anything illegal.

There is some ridiculous commentary on this thread.

OP I understood your point. He’s been daft rather than aggressive and now he will pay the price.

This is how he will learn accountability.

It's untrue to say boys receive no guidance. They're raised in the same world as girls, who for the most part understand.

I imagine it depends how much of her bottom is exposed.

I think most boys understand too. Some just don’t want to.

There is so much done in schools now, and ime, parents of boys and girls talk to them a lot about relationships, consent, including taking and sharing of photos as they all have phones with cameras now obviously. These themes come up in shows aimed at young people, it’s on SM. They can’t not know,

Any boy that does this and claims they didn’t realise it wasn’t ok is disgusting and is lying. Anyone who excuses and minimises this behaviour is disgusting too.

mum of teen boy here 👋🏻 I think use this as a discussion opportunity rather than progressing to dumping. I voted ‘yanbu’ because ultimately this needs to be about your daughters needs, feelings and wishes. She is and always will be the more vulnerable party and as her mum that’s where obviously your alliance needs to land. I’m sure it does. But, it’s fairly innocuous and coukd be interpreted as just really bad judgement…discuss! talk! kept educating 💪

This would really worry me too.
The OP seems remarkably sanguine about the whole situation, whereas I imagine most of us would be utterly furious.

I work with sex offenders. It doesn't matter that it's only part of her bum, if his phone was looked at by police it would be considered an indecent image of a child. The law states for that context the age limit is 18 to give consent to indecent images regardless of the fact that the age of consent is 16. What he has done is very very serious and someone needs to have that conversation with him. He also shouldn't be sneaking into her bedroom while she's asleep.

It's a criminal offence, expect more of your boy. I do of mine.

Why are you thinking boys aren’t taught about consent, rather than thinking this boy has been taught but doesn’t care? Teaching about consent begins in the primary school curriculum.

It is when part of the child's bottom is exposed. What's your collar number?

If this was my DD I'd be telling her to dump the little creep, and I'd be making it very clear to him (and probably his parents too) what a disrespectful little perve I thought he was.

That 'poor boy' mindset enables that pretence or the not caring about boundaries from boys and men.