Chat with daughter... Non consensual photo

[BGP]

Chilling with DD 15, tonight. Talking about her BF who is away on holiday. I really like him because he has been the first boy she was chosen who she never felt the need to impress or pose around.

She's always clearly felt very comfortable with him and able to be herself, not all hair and makeup etc.

He's a nice lad, nice family, slightly immature for age (17) and not the brightest but always seemed calm and kind and caring.

She says when he stayed over here (separate rooms) the next morning he went to her room. He fell asleep and then his phone buzzed and she looked. He had taken a photo of her bum while she was asleep, not naked but her PJ's had ridden down. She was upset and angry that he did that when she trusted him.

She's considering breaking up with him.

I don't have an issue with this, and I fully defend her right to privacy and respect, this is not ok.

But a part of me feels sorry for these teen boys. They don't seem to have any proper guidance on how to behave, or on consent. If I had a son I would bloody well make sure he understood, but I watch blokes bigging up the sexualisation of women and girls all the time. It's normalised. How do these young people have a chance at any decent relationships?

What the fuck has happened to all of us? All the social media, lack of real relationships, communication, respect?

I will reiterate I do not condone his behaviour. But I feel sorry for these boys, as a mum of girls. They don't seem to know what to do.

Mums of boys.....what do you think?

Honestly @BGP I am and always have been close with my Mum. It was only when as a teen I was in an emotionally and physically abusive relationship that I withdrew and hid/lied about what was really happening.

The fact your DD can confide in you about something that may make her feel awkward or embarrassed really shows how strong your relationship is.

Back your DD in whatever she wants to do moving forward and carry on giving her the support, respect and love she needs. I’m in my 40s now but I still remember how hard my teenage years were. I can also recognise the importance of having parents who cared for me, who held me accountable for my behaviour and my choices but ultimately were always there for me when I needed them.

I have also been on MN for years (how does that even matter?) and I disagree - even 20yrs ago this thread would have gone the same way. No, I don’t have toddlers. You were the one who went to great lengths to explain how your 15yr old child (your word not mine) is supervised with her 17yr old boyfriend and then blamed mixed messages to boys about why he possibly took a photo if your DD’s bum when she was asleep.
Glad your DD knows her boundaries and isn’t making excuses for her stbx.

Poor poor boys why does no one teach them not to take non consensual photos of girl’s arses?

no one taught me not to do it and yet I know not to. Why do men always get given a free pass because poor them no one explained.

ffs

I understand the discussion you were hoping to have. Unfortunately I think you worded it badly. It could have simply been:

‘X happened to my dd. Why is this still happening despite widespread discussion about consent etc. I don’t have sons, If you do how do you really push this message home without just leaving it to the school?’

Then you started calling people nutters and lunatics which I am sure you know is not ok.

I am sorry you didn't feel like you had the relationship where you could confide with your mum.

I don't think being a parent is easy at all. So many people have been quick to judge and assume I am at fault.

I'd rather have my kids under my roof than in a park or at some friend's house where there are no adults at all. I'm not going to sit outside my daughter's room staring at her and her boyfriend. That would be weird. Equally I let them know I will pop in randomly and the door must always be open.

For some reason people on here think that makes me a bad parent.

My daughter talking to me about how she feels says I am a safe parent, who listens and who she feels safe to talk to.

Sometimes she doesn't make the right choices, but I can't show her the bad choices I made at her age and expect her to learn from them. She'll do her own thing and all I can do is hope she has listened. If she hasn't listened and gets herself in any trouble, she needs to be able to come to me for help.

Mums, if you are just a bunch of rules and you are scary..... where will your kids go for help? Especially if they have done wrong like gone out drinking or something and got themselves in a state? It's going to happen to everyone (not necessarily the drinking, my eldest doesn't touch it). But the moment they was to reach out and they are scared of you?

Um my 4dc aren’t scared of me! They are 26,21, 16 and 12 and I have seen an awful lot 😂 and listened to an awful lot. I actually have very few rules and have still managed to raise 4dc (3 of whom are boys) to be pretty great and confident people who are able to come to me with any issues. So I don’t know why you are judging other people’s parenting.

Teens sharing indecent images of themselves and each other is a massive problem. Both male and female. They don’t get the permanence of a digital photo. I’m sure they do if they had to explain it but their actions don’t always demonstrate it.

Say the boyfriend kept the photo and in two months time OPs daughter dumps him over something else and this immature 17 year old is pissed off, he decides to share that image to embarrass her. She would never have control of that image.

OP, you take no responsibility for allowing your dd to be in this vulnerable situation. Would this have happened if he hadn’t stayed over?...No. Do you show any sign of accepting your part in the responsibility for this? Also no.

You should be telling his parents regardless of what your dd decides to do. My 14 year old ds know not to do stuff like this as I have drummed it into him. I would absolutely want to know if he did it so I could address it with him myself.

I deal with the fallout from this stuff as part of my job. AI images are adding a whole different dynamic aswell. Many parents are not doing enough to educate and warn their children. It’s interesting though that the OP wants parents to educate their boys about the taking of indecent images but she defends her position of having a boyfriend sleep over at the house.

I'm not judging other people's parenting.

I started this post because i heard my daughter, but I felt for her boyfriend who did a stupid thing without any malicious intent, but who could be hauled over the coals for it. I came here for advice and conversation and what I got was finger pointing and judgement, and apparently being reported over and over.

If my DD felt abused or under threat in any way I would support her appropriately. I am supporting her appropriately by listening, being there and supporting her decision making.

I do know teenagers with very outspoken parents that would rather die than ask for help. Lots of them actually, and it makes me sad. Lots of kids who are actually scared of parents and consequences.

All the people banging on about it being school's job. It isn't, it's our job. And sometimes we are shit parents, sometimes we don't listen, sometimes we get it wrong. Self 500% included. But it all starts with us.

There is plenty out there drumming in the need for consent if they wish to listen. I've seen enough of it come through on various media platforms. Much more pushed than when I was a teen.

It's the girls you want to feel sorry for. Not the boys. Poor innocent boys not able to help themselves taking liberties and pushing sexual consent boundaries, what a joke.

Boys who want to act that way now feel empowered to not give a shit about how girls would feel, because there is enough content there to support their shitty ideals. It's their personality traits which leads them to chose which line of content they want to engage in.

They know really if they are doing the wrong thing. They are just hoping to get away with it. If caught they apologise. If that don't work they go back to their media outlets that tell them they shouldn't give a shit about what they done

“No malicious intent”

he took a photo of your daughter’s bum without her knowledge.

is he exceptionally thick? Or perhaps he should be raked over the coals for it because that simply isn’t okay or normal.

FFS your daughter is upset because this boy has took photos of her arse without her consent, but you are feeling sorry for the boy. What is wrong with you! She is 15 for god sake, even if she was older it would be bad. But she is still legally a child and you are acting like he is some kind of victim that couldn't help himself.

As a 38 year old adult I would be upset if a man done this to me while I am unconscious and vulnerable.

It is very wrong. And no ones fault but that boy. What did he intend on doing with that photo? A loving sweet caring boyfriend would not do this

I was (and still am!) shit scared of my Mum! Not in a bad way, but it was her who disciplined us (Dad worked away a lot and was/is so laid back he’s horizontal) but equally was Mum who pushed/supported/encouraged us.

My Mum grew up in care (abused by Catholic Nuns), so whilst she was quite strict and exacting and I was sometimes left feeling like I wasn’t good enough in who I was/what I achieved, I know that drive came from a place of wanting to make sure her kids knew they were wanted, loved and knowing she had given us the best chance at excelling in life.

I sadly haven’t been able to have children of my own (I do have 3 gorgeous dogs and many adorable niblings) but I think all any parent can do is their best…learning from their childhood, applying what they’ve learnt through growing up themselves and recognising that their own children are individuals with their own unique needs and wants.

Keep the dialogue open with your DD….that’s what matters.

@CarlaLemarchant 'IIt’s interesting though that the OP wants parents to educate their boys about the taking of indecent images but she defends her position of having a boyfriend sleep over at the house.'

My point was never educating boys about images. It was about consent..and the boys not understanding that.

My DD was exposed to boys photos of their penises when she was 12. In school. How the hell do I protect her from that? Phones are everywhere, social media is everywhere. If it was up to me I would ban it all. I gave DD a phone because she had serious health issues and I had no choice.

She had a girlfriend before the boyfriend. She stayed over. Also in a separate room. At least I knew. How many parents don't actually know what their kids think or want?

I'm probably going to get reported again for saying that. But it's the bloody truth, she had a best friend and they mistook it for a relationship because they are children!

If I never allowed anyone in the house, do you think the problems would go away?

If she is in the house at least she can shout for help or sneakily come sit with her parents, ask for help, talk.

Why do so many women condone the behaviour of shit men? “Aww, poor little soul, he wasn’t to know he shouldn’t be taking pictures of his sleeping girlfriend’s naked butt! Life’s so difficult for young men nowadays. Can’t do anything, can’t say anything…”

@BGP , It's fascinating reading
(1) you wanting to discuss why boys do not know how to behave but also like & sympathise with someone who has violated your daughter,
(2) how your DD has adult supervision then in the same breath say we all know that even during adult supervision children can still get away with stuff AND you still let your underage DD have her boyfriend sleep over!
(3) you are calling people lunatics and nutters because they are pointing out why they are struggling with your post.
(4) why would a pp cry when they hear how much you have done for your DD, aren't you her mum. Who should do 'all that you have done' for her?
If you have done all that you have done for her to the extent that a stranger would cry at you doing what a mother should do for her child, WHY are you risking your underage DD's safety by having her ' innocent, naive, immature but mature enough to creep into her room while sleeping, mature enough to know he would not take that picture of your DD if she were awake ' boyfriend stay over night in the same house as your DD.
(5) your DD does not need to shout for help/sneak away/come sit beside etc and ask for help, the 'boyfriends' or 'girlfriends' just need to NOT be in her house.

Your complete lack of insight is truly fascinating. Totally breathtaking.

Well this problem would have gone away if he hadn't stayed wouldn't it. The only way she would be sleeping and vulnerable is in the position you set up.

What's the point in the open doors policies while you are all up and about in the day, if you then let the partner say over.

She is just 15 but yet you have already let 2 partners stay over. Why? At that age just let her have time with them then they can return to their own homes. My DD got in a relationship around her 15th birthday. No sleepovers until she was 16. Children don't get partner sleepovers. No one is supervising when sleeping. Even if 1 child would not want the other sneaking in, they or the parents couldn't do anything about it.

This boy would not have been able to take this photo which has upset her if you hadn't let hin stay the night. Fact

Schools do cover this sort of stuff from primary school, where what un/healthy relationships look like and all the way through secondary. As a primary teacher, we have certainly talked about photos without consent explicitly with my year 6 class.
But why on earth ate you even having your 15 year old daughter's bf sleeping over? Why are you not comdoning them sneaking about at night and getting it on?

Oh, this is all kinds of wrong. I don't know what's worse - that he took a photo of her half-naked bum without her knowledge or that he was all "So what's your problem?" when she talked to him about it. That kind of casual, arrogant dismissal was a HALLMARK of my abusive ex, whose abuse didn't start until we were married and living abroad. I recognise this "what's your problem?" attitude a mile off. It's so casual, like they're flicking an insect off their sleeve; it's total dismissal, and I think it's a massive red flag of a man who simply doesn't think a female's feelings are important. Not even the female he's supposed to have especially kind and loving feelings towards.

And yes, 17 and 15 is icky. So is the fact he went into her bed. She's under-age.

I think she should get rid. That bum photo is completely unacceptable and he needs to learn his lesson. I'm surprised you feel sorry for him, OP, instead of reading him the riot act. If any almost-man did that to my child, he would never cross my doorstep again, and his parents would know why. 😡

I like the way you read it..

They slept in separate rooms. I check through the night. I would rather she is under my roof.

If he was my son, he's done something silly with no malice. This is my point, no one has set out to abuse anyone. She felt abused and i understand and I totally support her

But no one thinks of him as also a child, and despite his age he is a child. Not all of them mature at the same rate .

He didn't creep in to her room, he woke her up and she fell back asleep. They were messing on when she was awake and he was playing drums on her bum.

She fell back asleep and wrestled with her entire bedding as usual. She woke up and he was asleep but had a message on his phone and she saw a picture of her half pj'd bum. .
.
She was very right to be angry about this. I do not dispute that. She bollocked him and rightly so.

I will not be lambasted for letting him sleep over, because I did check on them regularly.i do not let anyone sleep in the same room because the girls are as bad as the boys when it comes down to it.

So I suggest you think about whether you would ever allow anyone to sleep in your house when your kids are there.

And as for the cry comment my Dd and I have been through hell and back with her health, I would prefer not to relieve it but relationships are the least of anyone's worries. I assure you.

If you have kids go look at them, hug them and make them feel always safe to talk to you.

I love the way that some people are letting kids under 18 have partner sleepovers, it's making me smile when I look back at my youth...my parents would not let any boyfriend stay in the same room until we were married! 🤣 And if a boy came over after school, no way were we allowed upstairs. Such quaint times. 😂 Parents are dead now. How the world moves on!

He didn't creep in to her room, he woke her up and she fell back asleep. They were messing on when she was awake and he was playing drums on her bum.
Wise up!

Thanks, I read it as you wrote it.

He didn't creep in to her room, he woke her up and she fell back asleep. They were messing on when she was awake and he was playing drums on her bum.

She fell back asleep and wrestled with her entire bedding as usual. She woke up and he was asleep but had a message on his phone and she saw a picture of her half pj'd bum.

Slight change in story there. Did they have separate rooms or not? Why are you minimising what happened? Also, with what you have written, where was the adult supervision while all this went on? Can you really not see what is wrong here? Ensuring your DD personal safety for e.g her privacy not being violated IS part of her health.

With each post you make... like i said truly fascinating.

I am not saying any of this is right. And I would agree most teenage boys are little shits.

I don't have a teenage boy, but I have a stepson who is the same age. And he is also a good lad who is respectful and kind.

Yes the girls need to be protected, but have any of you seen how they can also manipulate?

My DD is right, he is wrong. There are plenty of bad lads out there who would do a lot worse and that doesn't make what he did right or ok. But if you were on a jury looking at this would you seriously send him to prison?

All i want is for parents to talk to their kids, for boys to understand this is not ok and girls to feel safe whenever they go. Girls will never feel safe wherever they go, but boys can learn. Some of them will never learn. This boy will.

Yes they slept in separate rooms. And I checked they stayed there. This was in the morning. And again regular checks on them and door open policy.

OP I absolutely cannot believe you said you ‘felt for her boyfriend who did a stupid thing without any malicious intent.’ Open your eyes! People aren’t posting on this thread to be mean or pile onto you - they are genuinely trying to tell you how important it is we protect our daughters and make abundantly clear that these things are fucking horrendous. He has taken an intimate photo of your underage daughter without her consent. No respectful 17 year old thinks that is okay behaviour. I am a mother of sons and fucking hell, they knew by 7 that other people have private areas. PLEASE do not allow this man back into your home - that’s not being ‘full of rules’ and stopping your child coming to you for help as you previously suggested. It’s laying down the law and setting an example that this horrible behaviour, be it for a ‘joke’ or not, will NOT be accepted in your home.