My friend has driven off and left her toddler with me after I refused to babysit…

[DojaPussy]

I have been friends with “Claire” for 10 years, I have no children and she has 4.

Claire struggles with all the children and her DH left her when she was pregnant with the youngest “Barry” who is only 2.
He didn’t want more than 2 kids but a mixture of pressure and “contraceptive failures” led to number 3 where he tried to cope but issued an ultimatum about any more and booked a vasectomy as he said he couldn’t risk Claire getting pregnant on the contraceptive injection again.
Before he could go ahead with it baby Barry was on his way so he packed his bags and left, he sees the two eldest but not the youngest two now.
Claire has only ever half heartedly tried to deny it was on purpose and just said she was 40 and desperately wanted another and was nearly out of time.

Claire is constantly asking me for help with childcare and I’ve helped a bit over the years but I hate it because she’s very soft with the kids and they are a nightmare to look after and I didn’t choose not to have my own to help raise someone else’s!

I’ve been off work this week and have been having a lovely relaxing time with long lie - ins, going to the gym, the hairdresser, seeing friends, hiking and just enjoying free time.
I was supposed to go away for a short break but finances wouldn’t allow it so I’m trying to make up for that with other little treats.
I have a pedicure booked today at 3.45 at local spa hotel round the corner and bought a day pass to use the gym and pool facilities then was meeting a friend for dinner in the hotel restaurant.

Claire asked yesterday if I could look after Barry today because she “has an appointment” I suspect its meeting someone she’s been dating because she’s mentioned before that he works from home Friday mornings then finishes early and she wouldn’t elaborate on the appointment except to say “it’s important”.
I said no I wasn’t watching Barry and told her my plans, she said he could come along and I said absolutely not it wouldn’t be allowed!
She begged me to change plans but I said I’d lose money and I won’t get a chance or have the time to go for a long time - plus I just don’t want to.
Claire slammed the phone down and I thought she had got message.

She turned up at my house about half an hour ago to apologise and I let her in and we had a little chat and after 15 minutes she started begging me to babysit again, I said no again and she started crying hysterically saying she can’t cope anymore, she’s then walked off to her car and got in it and has driven off!

I think the whole performance was planned and I’m not wasting my plans being manipulated into childcare.

I have a few options and looking for advice on what people think I should do next…

I could take Barry to his dads at work but that seems unfair on him,

Take him to her sisters who works from home (another frequent reluctant target for babysitting) in the hope she is in,

take him to my neighbour who is a childminder and see if I can pay her to mind him (and get reimbursed off Claire) I know Claire would normally be against this as she usually doesn’t like leaving kids with people she doesn’t know but after today’s antics I’m not sure she’ll care.

I have so far text Claire and left messages saying I’m ringing the police if she doesn’t come back and if the other options fail how unreasonable would it be to do that? I thought I’d give her half an hour where I have typed out this post and I’ve text her parents and I’m waiting to hear back from them in the hope one of them might be free to collect him.

I’m guessing all the people above have been asked and refused so that makes it trickier.

I’m seething with anger and can’t believe she’s done this. It’s the sort of thing that’s in cheeky fucked legend but you don’t think anyone would do in real life!
It’s lucky we live in a small village where I know most of Claire’s friends and family because if I don’t track someone down Barry is getting dropped at the police station. I’ve wasted so much time on this already.

Changed my name not to be outing but tbh I don’t care if the situation is outing because if Claire didn’t want people to know what’s she’s done then she shouldn’t have done it.

Of course not. I'm saying that if we had a law that said men who choose not to wear condoms and impregnate women who've lied to them are absolved of responsibility because they are victims, it would be pretty naive not to anticipate how this would be abused.
I don't know about you, but I'm not mad keen on the tax payer having to pick up the slack for any man who prefers not to wear a condom, and knows he only needs to say "she said she was on the pill" to walk away from his child without contributing a penny.

(Forgot to quote in last post)
Seriously?! “Child abuse”?? What ‘Claire’ did was a really shitty thing to do to her friend. She’s clearly using her and I think it’s best the OP ends the friendship there. But be real..she did not ‘abandon’ her child. She left him with someone she knew would take responsibility for him. Whether she was right to do that or not is beside the point, but it is not anywhere close to child abuse 🤣 and you’re actually devaluing the experiences of real victims by calling it that.

@DojaPussy you are right, SS will see it as malicious. Don’t report her to SS, who does that?! You might be pissed off but I think losing your friendship (and future babysitting services) is a more appropriate ‘punishment’ that fits the crime. Reporting anyone to SS unless you have genuine concerns a child is a risk, is a vile thing to do. Also, it will so clearly look like you are doing it out of spite for her leaving him with you. They will likely treat it as malicious, my partner is a SW and they get malicious reports like this all the time from people trying to get revenge for one thing or another. It’s incredibly stressful & upsetting having SS involvement when you have kids. It doesn’t sound like this woman needs anymore stress in her life. If she was a truly abusive mother she’d have stuck her kid in front of the tv and left him home alone. Cut her out of your life and move on.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a factor in men choosing to use sex workers tbh.

it would be pretty naive not to anticipate how this would be abused.

Like women abuse the fact that they can lie about taking the pill and force some chump into paying for them to sit at home for two decades?

Yeh a load of anger towards a mum that’s clearly not coping. I’d be calling family and social services to get her help. 4 kids is a lot and they are probably being neglected in other small ways. The Dad is a useless pounce so
i at least hope she is getting enough maintenance!

I also know this situation is irritating for you but I’d definitely give any friend the benefit of the doubt first as this is extreme

You really don't like women, do you?

You are much better off losing a friendship but knowing your did everything you could to keep those children safe. She is obviously very unwell mentally and needs support but that should come from professionals, not other people always shielding and picking up the slack.

Also, the dad absolutely should be taking care of all 4 kids... If he wanted to stop at 2 he had 2 options.. no sex or sex only with a condom.. he is as much to blame for the extra pregnancies as she is.

If I absolutely did not want children and I was a man who had little choice in accidents and outcomes , then you best believe I would take matters in to my own hands and hurt feelings or trust issues be damned. Or just abstain 😳 although that does seems a little extreme.

As a woman, I never wanted children ever, and if there was ever a scenario where parenthood was forced upon me, I would find this unacceptable and would do whatever I could to prevent it. It's the one place where we women get to choose and men know this and need to make better decisions for themselves. It can't just be a woman's fault.

It sounds like your friend is heading for a breakdown of sorts or just very, very selfish. I have suffered with c-PTSD which behaviour now is related to freeze of the nervous system but can also result in flight fawn or fight. Not saying she has c-PTSD but your boundaries need to be placed and completely ring-fenced after this behaviour. I’d encourage her to seek help as you usher her out if your life. X

This so is her

The solution is for any man who knows he is not prepared to support a child is to not cause a pregnancy. As he knows that having sex carries a risk he will impregnate a woman, he needs to mitigate the risk by wearing a condom, then weigh up his desire for sex against any remaining risk.

The dad is wrong here as he should be helping all four children. Not their fault they were born.

dad should have had a blow
job instead.

Sigh, we all know that, you are not teaching 12 year olds. You are talking to grown ups.

howver that ship has sailed, so no point in repeating what so many others have written, like we are kids in sex education.

I think the Police need to be notified, she needs help and / or the children do.

in future don’t even entertain any comms with the Mum, she can’t be trusted. This is such an awful thing to abandon you child for the possible chance of a bloke or some flimsy promise. Her attention should be on her kids.

I feel for the children, their life must be chaotic.

It Is a common theme, people want more children as babies are cute and many new Mums get attention, it’s all a nice sweet spot in life (for most).

However both parents need to be on board as life is very stressful. Also, these children grow and need care and attention, it is sobering to consider this also not just the hormonal need (and I really do get this is a strong urge for some).

The risks of pregnancy are very low if the woman is on the pill. So women do have a responsibility to be honest about whether they are using any contraception or not. Of course if they don't want to go on the pill or have the coil that's fine but they need to be honest. I can't believe this is being debated. Just don't lie to your partner, why is this complicated?

I thought use of condoms was pretty rare in long term, monogamous relationships but maybe I'm wrong. I'm certainly glad my partner trusts me enough to not insist on using them, I prefer the pill to condoms personally (accepting the pill can fail but the risk is low). I wouldn't want to be with my partner if he felt he couldn't trust me not to lie.

Sorry but no. It’s true that some mums really struggle, 4 children is a lot even with a family to help you, and that there can be other factors like mental health involved.

BUT - there are also women who want to become mothers for narcissistic reasons. They don’t want to do the work, but love to use their status as mothers to claim special privileges. They are often neglectful or even abusive mothers because it’s all about them, not the children. They aren’t the majority for sure. But we have probably all met one at some point. At their extreme they are the mothers leaving their children unattended so they can socialise or go on dates. One of my old neighbours had a daughter who was truly antisocial- lying, stealing, tge whole lot. Made a big deal about being a mother but couldn’t be bothered to feed her child breakfast before school. At one point she asked her mother to look after the child for an afternoon. She came back 3 months later. If ever challenged she would claim it was because of mental health but if actually challenged would eventually say she did what she did because she wanted to. Fortunately my neighbour was able to find the dad (it was a fairly short term thing, she told him she couldn’t get pregnant) and he took the child. That kid is now grown up and prefaces any conversation with - you aren’t in touch with my mum, are you? I don’t want to her to know anything about me.

so in answer to PP - it’s not the first place you want to go, but it’s naive and wrong to think that women are always blameless or victims in these scenarios, and if OP thinks this is manipulative, it probably is.

edited to clarify daughter’s request.

Then I genuinely don't understand the question. We all understand from basic biology that a man can prevent causing a pregnancy. Therefore if a man doesn't want to support a child so badly he would actually walk away and leave his child without, he needs to apply what he learned at 12 years old and prevent it becoming a problem in the first place.

Well done OP. You have been a good friend. Block her and move on.
Your friend has 4 children, if she wanted them she looks after them. They are not your responsibility.
I think she has a bloody cheek saying as you have no children you should help with hers, she wanted to dump this child.
I agree with Claires Mother she is manipulative.

As a woman I've never wanted children either. So I've been on the pill for many years and I'm quite happy with it, no side effects for me luckily. In long term relationships I've been in, I've told partners I'm on the pill and after STD checks we've decided not to use condoms together, as a joint choice, because honestly sex is nicer without them. I don't think I would be happy in a relationship with a man who insisted on condoms just in case I decided to lie, I like to know that my partner trusts me. Yes the risk is higher than zero but it's still pretty low. If my partner wanted to have a vasectomy I'd be all for it but I wouldn't insist on it as it's a very final decision.

I think both men and women should be able to trust their partners not to lie about use of contraception, basically. If a man lied about having had a vasectomy I'd be equally outraged.

I think.on.monday you should ring social services. She's not coping.

Wow! Her choice, her responsibility!!
That would be the end of the friendship for me x

I agree with this. Most couples do not want to use condoms in a long term relationship. I certainly do not. It is part of the trust factor and the trust here looks like it was broken. The innocent party of course is the youngest child caught in the middle. At some point someone will be cruel and make it clear why mum and dad split up and this could have a lasting mental health impact.

Imagine this happening and whilst you are literally holding the baby… your first thought being

“I know what I’ll do…. Start a very long mumsnet thread”

I think the poster just has a better grip on reality than many posters to be honest.

This child is at risk.

The mother left her child with someone who refused to care for him and drove off. That's child abandonment and it's a criminal act where I am and is considered a serious form of child abuse.

She thought that OP would cave and take care of her kid. OP has caved in not informing social services or the police and getting the grandmother to take him. So further abuse from the mother towards her kid will not be picked up on. This is how these poor kids fly under the radar until something puts them in the hospital. There's a culture of silence going on here covering up what she's doing.

At least where I am, social services has the duty to take all complaints seriously and investigate. This is not malice. The mother is the malicious one here.