My friend has driven off and left her toddler with me after I refused to babysit…

[DojaPussy]

I have been friends with “Claire” for 10 years, I have no children and she has 4.

Claire struggles with all the children and her DH left her when she was pregnant with the youngest “Barry” who is only 2.
He didn’t want more than 2 kids but a mixture of pressure and “contraceptive failures” led to number 3 where he tried to cope but issued an ultimatum about any more and booked a vasectomy as he said he couldn’t risk Claire getting pregnant on the contraceptive injection again.
Before he could go ahead with it baby Barry was on his way so he packed his bags and left, he sees the two eldest but not the youngest two now.
Claire has only ever half heartedly tried to deny it was on purpose and just said she was 40 and desperately wanted another and was nearly out of time.

Claire is constantly asking me for help with childcare and I’ve helped a bit over the years but I hate it because she’s very soft with the kids and they are a nightmare to look after and I didn’t choose not to have my own to help raise someone else’s!

I’ve been off work this week and have been having a lovely relaxing time with long lie - ins, going to the gym, the hairdresser, seeing friends, hiking and just enjoying free time.
I was supposed to go away for a short break but finances wouldn’t allow it so I’m trying to make up for that with other little treats.
I have a pedicure booked today at 3.45 at local spa hotel round the corner and bought a day pass to use the gym and pool facilities then was meeting a friend for dinner in the hotel restaurant.

Claire asked yesterday if I could look after Barry today because she “has an appointment” I suspect its meeting someone she’s been dating because she’s mentioned before that he works from home Friday mornings then finishes early and she wouldn’t elaborate on the appointment except to say “it’s important”.
I said no I wasn’t watching Barry and told her my plans, she said he could come along and I said absolutely not it wouldn’t be allowed!
She begged me to change plans but I said I’d lose money and I won’t get a chance or have the time to go for a long time - plus I just don’t want to.
Claire slammed the phone down and I thought she had got message.

She turned up at my house about half an hour ago to apologise and I let her in and we had a little chat and after 15 minutes she started begging me to babysit again, I said no again and she started crying hysterically saying she can’t cope anymore, she’s then walked off to her car and got in it and has driven off!

I think the whole performance was planned and I’m not wasting my plans being manipulated into childcare.

I have a few options and looking for advice on what people think I should do next…

I could take Barry to his dads at work but that seems unfair on him,

Take him to her sisters who works from home (another frequent reluctant target for babysitting) in the hope she is in,

take him to my neighbour who is a childminder and see if I can pay her to mind him (and get reimbursed off Claire) I know Claire would normally be against this as she usually doesn’t like leaving kids with people she doesn’t know but after today’s antics I’m not sure she’ll care.

I have so far text Claire and left messages saying I’m ringing the police if she doesn’t come back and if the other options fail how unreasonable would it be to do that? I thought I’d give her half an hour where I have typed out this post and I’ve text her parents and I’m waiting to hear back from them in the hope one of them might be free to collect him.

I’m guessing all the people above have been asked and refused so that makes it trickier.

I’m seething with anger and can’t believe she’s done this. It’s the sort of thing that’s in cheeky fucked legend but you don’t think anyone would do in real life!
It’s lucky we live in a small village where I know most of Claire’s friends and family because if I don’t track someone down Barry is getting dropped at the police station. I’ve wasted so much time on this already.

Changed my name not to be outing but tbh I don’t care if the situation is outing because if Claire didn’t want people to know what’s she’s done then she shouldn’t have done it.

Hopefully this won’t happen again and Claire probably got a shock that I didn’t drop everything to babysit, she might realise she isn’t always going to get her own way in life and her mother will be looking out for the kids.
I don’t want to go to social services now because that just looks malicious and like I don’t trust her mother to keep the kids safe.

@DojaPussy , you hopefully realize by now that your friend Claire is abusive. You're enabling her child abuse by not reporting what she did. She abused you for not knuckling under and watching her kid and she abused her child when she drove off and left him with someone who said no to caregiving.

The adults around child abuse often stay quiet and say nothing until something happens that can't be ignored until they end up hospitalized. Child abandonment is a serious form of child abuse.

I had a male friend who was stupid enough to believe his new partner was taking the pill. When she got pregnant she immediately dumped him and only wanted him to pay. Fought tooth and claw against him seeing the kids and made up all sorts of stories. Thankfully he now has 50% custody and is a great, engaged father.

This only came about because she got on with the grandmother and admitted via email when drunk one day that she'd made a lot of stuff up and felt bad about it as he was a good guy and loved his kids.

I suppose women that don't want to experience DV can just stay single too, right? If you don't want to experience maternity discrimination you can just stay childless. Voila. Problem solved.

Only a woman would say "don't have sex if you don't want kids". Because of course she always has options.

Well surely the response to that is no sex for him surely?

I'm sensing the running theme of this entire thread is that men absolutely need sex regardless of the consequences .

Oh, and a woman lying and manipulating is far worse than a man totally abandoning your child, even if the woman he is abandoning the child with is woefully unfit.

Well, for context it's considered a form of rape if a man lies about using protection. It's called 'stealthing' and can incur significant jail sentences. The idea is that consent was given on the basis of using birth control.

If a women lies about using birth control then why isn't consent a factor in this instance too, especially as the man has no recourse if she becomes pregnant and may suffer significant financial costs as a result of her dishonesty?

And if everyone she tried was out or refused? And again, why should she be stuck trailing from house to house and presumably having to cancel her plans?

Well, one mitigates the risk of life-limiting diseases, the other does not.

I'd imagine that's the biggest difference.

Also, the pill is typically only 90-94% effective. How would you prove the woman deliberately lied about being on the pill?

I'm not sure how much debating contraception is helping the OP.

OP I think what your last update shows is that she was never really your friend. She's been using you for a lot longer than just yesterday. You've been childcare, an ATM, you've done everything you can to make her life easier and she hasn't appreciated it at all. Because that's not why she had a relationship with you. She just greedily wanted to grab everything you provided.

And now you've said no of course she's got nasty. She can see it all vanishing and she doesn't like it one bit. This was never a true friendship.

Yes, STDs are definitely a factor here but if the driving factor is the lack of consent then there is still some comparison to be made. The cost of paying child support for almost two decades is significant.

I'd imagine it's not easy to prove that a condom didn't break/come off during sex or even that he didn't wear one if no pregnancy occurs. Whilst the lack of a prescription for birth control and accompanying messages etc could likely give a good indication if somebody was being untruthful.

In my friend's case his partner had claimed many times via message that she didn't want kids but he later found out she was on the adoption list. She also later stated she wanted another child by the same father and asked him to get her pregnant. She's admitted everything in email since then and apologised. My friend wouldn't act on it either way but even if he did he'd have no recourse and have to keep paying for another decade.

The man is the psychopath? The mother tricked him into having more kids and left her child with someone who said they couldn’t look after it. She’s the psychopath!

Of course you can trick men into sex. If you claim that you’re using contraception but you aren’t, that is not acceptable.

Do agree that should have been responsible, he could have taken precautions, and not even visiting two of your biological children is a massive overreaction.

He probably cannot stand the woman tbh. No doubt he's seen a lot of her manipulative behaviour.

Nope. Do I really need to explain the difference between what happens to a woman’s body and what does not happen to a man’s?

Don’t forget many men do have children. They promise the mothers they will be there for life and then leave. That’s your lie. Do men get punished for this? No. Do they have to ensure their child is looked after financially. Barely. Where’s the difference? Men are not shamed half as much.

I don't think that lying and manipulating is worse than abandoning your own child but I do think both are unacceptably bad behaviour.

Lying to your partner about something as important as contraception just isn't acceptable. It's coercive.

If my partner wanted to use condoms because he didn't trust me to take the pill properly, I'd find that quite difficult as trust is very important in a healthy relationship. The pill I take is 99% effective if taken perfectly and that's a small enough risk that we're both prepared to take it.

Yes men can get a vasectomy of course, but a vasectomy can't always be reversed. Often a man might know that he's not ready for kids right now, but he might want them in the future. What's he supposed to do then? Always insist on condoms, even in a long term relationship, because he can't trust a partner to be honest?

So if a guy refuses to have penetrative sex with his girlfriend in case she's lying about the pill/wanting children?

Are you saying no woman will have an issue with this? He won't be accused of having 'trust issues'?

Not comparable. Impregnating a woman by stealth is a physical assault on her person. The man is ejaculating into her body without her consent. The impact on her if a pregnancy results will be physical as well financial. While lying to a man is wrong, it is in no way the equal opposite. It would also be very easy for any man who had created a pregnancy to make a false allegation to avoid his responsibility.
I'm not sure why we have this rigmarole everytime a man claims to be tricked into fatherhood when its a completely unnecessary state of affairs, given prevention lies so easily within his power.

Fair enough, but do we look at why men actually leave ? Or do we just assume that they’re all shitbags and this is what they do ? Or do we approach it as rational human beings and examine the fault on both sides ?

Exactly. I'm quite shocked by some of the posts on this thread.

Men should wear always wear condoms, even in long-term, monogamous relationships, because women can't be trusted to take contraception properly and honestly - is that really the message we want to send? As a self-proclaimed feminist I'm grateful that my partner can trust me to be honest about the risks of pregnancy - they are not zero but they're a lot lower than if I just stopped taking the pill.

Equality doesn't mean women can start behaving like dicks, equality means we maintain the high standards we expect men to meet.

So you’re assuming that men always lie ?

The markers for contraceptives in a simple blood test for one thing.

Why ? I’ve never understood this point of view. Women can opt for birth control that doesn’t affect their future ability to give birth, but men are expected to commit to a procedure that stops them from having children, full stop ?

I have no issue with a man leaving a woman. I have issue with the children losing a dad. It’s even more disturbing when the absent dad starts himself a whole new family. But that’s probably for another thread!

But both cases still hinge around consent only being given on the understanding that birth control will be used. One case being worse doesn't mean the other is acceptable. I also think a lot of men would chance an STD over 18 years of payments to the person that misled them.

What are your solutions to this 'unnecessary state of affairs' that aren't unfavourable to the man every time? Telling his partner he won't have sex with her because he can't trust her? Just accepting the risk that she might be lying or might change her mind and lock him into two decades of payment? Having a vasectomy and possibly being unable to have children in the future?

Doesn't seem like there's an option that isn't bad for the man. I'd happily introduce a pre-nup style agreement whereby the man can opt out with the proviso that he isn't entitled to any future contact unless the kids/mother agree.

Seriously?! “Child abuse”?? What ‘Claire’ did was a really shitty thing to do to her friend. She’s clearly using her and I think it’s best the OP ends the friendship there. But be real..she did not ‘abandon’ her child. She left him with someone she knew would take responsibility for him. Whether she was right to do that or not is beside the point, but it is not anywhere close to child abuse 🤣 and you’re actually devaluing the experiences of real victims by calling it that.

@DojaPussy you are right, SS will see it as malicious. Don’t report her to SS, who does that?! You might be pissed off but I think losing your friendship (and future babysitting services) is a more appropriate ‘punishment’ that fits the crime. Reporting anyone to SS unless you have genuine concerns a child is a risk, is a vile thing to do. Also, it will so clearly look like you are doing it out of spite for her leaving him with you. They will likely treat it as malicious, my partner is a SW and they get malicious reports like this all the time from people trying to get revenge for one thing or another. It’s incredibly stressful & upsetting having SS involvement when you have kids. It doesn’t sound like this woman needs anymore stress in her life. If she was a truly abusive mother she’d have stuck her kid in front of the tv and left him home alone. Cut her out of your life and move on.