To wonder why right wingers such sore losers?

[Sparklespecs]

Whether it’s Trump crowing about elections being stolen (although not those he actually won) and Farage moaning about “sectarian voting and cheating” in Denton and Gorton, why can’t they just take a defeat on the chin? You win some, you lose some. Congratulate the winner, reflect, and then move on to the next one.

@JustSomeWaferThinHam

And tried to compare the US ‘Christo-fascists’ with Muslims in terms of influence

No, that was a direct reference to Reform's latest schtick of banging on about "Christian values", yet another page they've ripped straight from the MAGA playbook, and absolutely nothing to do with any sort of comparison with Muslims.

If you are genuinely concerned about religiosity being misused as an excuse to enact repressive social policies, you could look to the States doing exactly this off the back of MAGA-related Christofacism, because the fact Reform are now incorporating this into their messaging suggests the same thing would be very much on the cards in the UK if the electorate were dim enough to put them into office. There doesn't appear to be any realistic threat of the UK becoming an Islamic Theocracy any time soon given that Muslims are still a small minority, and there is no significant political vehicle agitating for this which has any hope of being elected to Government, however, we are three years out from a GE which threatens to install the UK's equivalent of the MAGA grift in Downing Street, hence why I'm suggesting its a risible nonsense to be scaremongering about the non-existent threat of an Islamic takeover a mere 1000 or so days out from a very real treat of a Christofascist takeover.

For such a minority, Muslims hold a great deal of power over us already

The only people who "hold power over us" are the lawmakers we elect. If some of them happen to be Muslim then that's perfectly in keeping with the fact that the UK population contains a significant minority of Muslim people.

The idea that you "can't criticise" Islam is total and utter nonsense. Islam is not subject to any special law which mandates it has to be treated in a different way to any other religion. If people are being treated differently when they criticise Islam compared to the same criticism of other religions, then that is indicative of a failure to apply the law appropriately, but it does not mean that Islam is given undue preference or reverence by the law itself.

Baroness.

Why were the police not involving themselves? It’s clear this was happening. The observers reported it. No action was apparently taken. The observers are not allied to interfere with the voting process - what more do you expect them to do?

MAGA-related Christofacism

You keep mentioning this. It’s meaningless. How many teenagers have the ‘Christofascists’ blown up or stabbed to death recently? How many have Reform murdered? How many beheadings have the so-called ‘right wing’ carried out? And as you correctly observed previously, we are not America. Our politics are vastly different. No one is trying to remove abortion rights.

The only people who "hold power over us" are the lawmakers we elect. If some of them happen to be Muslim then that's perfectly in keeping with the fact that the UK population contains a significant minority of Muslim people.

We already have Muslim MPs and a Muslim Home Secretary (in case you missed her). They generally say that they represent all of their constituents and look at the interests of the country, not just Muslims.

You might have missed the 5 Muslim ‘Gaza’ MPs who stood on an Islamic platform to only advance Muslim interests. You are probably unaware of the growing number of so-called Independents planning to stand on an Islamic platform at the next election. You won’t have come across them because they don’t need you.

The combination of easily manipulated postal votes and an extremely high voter turnout figures in the Muslim community mean that you are unlikely to notice them until after they are elected. They make a voting bloc. This has been acknowledged and exploited by the Labour Party. Obviously it has more blown up in their faces despite bending over backwards to retain the Muslim vote. In the 2019 election, 80% of Muslims voted Labour. That’s 3 million votes. For context, Labour won the 2024 election with 10 million votes.

The idea that you "can't criticise" Islam is total and utter nonsense. Islam is not subject to any special law which mandates it has to be treated in a different way to any other religion.

I point you to the current argument about Starmer promising Muslims that he will impose an official definition of Islamophobia which will be used against our free speech. The Labour Party itself has already adopted a very broad, easily weaponised definition and the is an APPG full of Islamists currently working on it in government. There is no APPG representative to protect free speech.

Have you stopped to consider why the CPS are so desperate to convict someone for burning a Koran? Spending hundreds of thousands of ££s and using up court time appealing against an acquittal? Even having humiliatingly lost that case they are still prosecuting another man in the summer.

Or wondered why the government are so reluctant to deal with the Pakistani Muslim rape gangs that not only do they let Jess Phillips scupper an inquiry (she has 42% Muslims in her constituency) but Lammy is determined to destroy the court records archive (if he hasn’t already) to prevent further action.

If people are being treated differently when they criticise Islam compared to the same criticism of other religions, then that is indicative of a failure to apply the law appropriately, but it does not mean that Islam is given undue preference or reverence by the law itself.

Why are the police and CPS failing to apply the law appropriately in so many cases (remember those rape gangs)? It very much does mean that Islam is being given due preference by our police forces ahead of the law being changed. Which the pro islam MPs will do as soon as elected.

even sky? as if it isn't owned by Rupert Murdoch . All this family voting accusations is ridiculous. I didn't know it was illegal go in the booth with family and member and if the staff let you why blame the people? someone being allowed to vote twice isn't family voting though and whoever let them in if, it even happened should be investigated.

I was saying Farage on Denton and Gorton sounded exactly like Trump in 2020.

It’s always a “stolen election” when their side loses. I am surprised they have not claimed Labour cheated to win the last election.

They didn’t claim that there was cheating.

You keep mentioning this. It’s meaningless. How many teenagers have the ‘Christofascists’ blown up or stabbed to death recently? How many have Reform murdered? How many beheadings have the so-called ‘right wing’ carried out?

It's not "meaningless". I stated my concerns are in relation to repressive social policy, nothing to do with terrorist atrocities. Yet again you are implying I am comparing Christianity and Islam, and yet again I have to reiterate that I've made no point about Islam at all in the original part of my post you clearly misinterpreted. Again, it was a point about repressive policy enacted by MAGA enthusiasts, the rhetoric being aped by Reform, the indication being Reform will enact similar legislation here if elected.

NOTHING TO DO WITH MUSLIMS

is that clear now?

And as you correctly observed previously, we are not America. Our politics are vastly different. No one is trying to remove abortion rights

Well no, not yet, because the UK hasn't yet elected a bunch of socially regressive grifting charlatans who will use Christianity as an excuse to strip rights and freedoms from groups they care not a jot about and wish to exploit, including women. Give it time and a few more Reform MPs though...

You might have missed the 5 Muslim ‘Gaza’ MPs who stood on an Islamic platform to only advance Muslim interests

That's your interpretation of their intent and motivation, it's not necessarily reflective of reality, and in any case, if a constituency electorate wants to elect a candidate on a single-issue basis, it's entirely within their gift to do so if they choose.

You are probably unaware of the growing number of so-called Independents planning to stand on an Islamic platform at the next election. You won’t have come across them because they don’t need you

I'd suggest that even if they exist, the reason people will be "unaware" is vastly more likely to the the simple fact that no election is due, or has been declared, so there are no candidates as of yet, and at this moment in time absolutely anyone can "plan" to stand for any reason they choose, so it's all just conjecture and a bit of a pointless exercise. There could be candidates "planning" to stand on a "euthanise all pensioners" ticket for all we know, it's of no more consequence at this moment in time.

The combination of easily manipulated postal votes and an extremely high voter turnout figures in the Muslim community mean that you are unlikely to notice them until after they are elected

Wait... so they are some sort of Schrodinger's candidate, simultaneously undetectable until elected, but also seemingly standing out like sore thumbs right now despite there likely being three years before we are even close to an election being declared?

I point you to the current argument about Starmer promising Muslims that he will impose an official definition of Islamophobia which will be used against our free speech

Which "argument" is this precisely?

I'm generally pretty politically switched on, but I'm unaware of the PM declaring his intention to stifle free speech. Is this some sort of internal Labour grass-roots thing?, because if it's not I'm struggling a bit to understand why I've never heard any mention of any such thing.

Have you stopped to consider why the CPS are so desperate to convict someone for burning a Koran?

No, because I don't especially concern myself with the minutiae and specifics of CPS decision-making re prosecution of obscure cases that take place nowhere near me and don't concern me. I'm fully aware of the fact that both CPS and the CO often press prosecutions of cases that don't necessarily appear to hold much merit or have debatable public interest, but I don't automatically assume that where and when they do it's because of some sort of Institutional bias toward a specific culture, or at least, if there is a suspicion it's usually because they appear to be pandering to the traditional interests and machinations of the UK establishment or State, rather than a minority religion.

Why are the police and CPS failing to apply the law appropriately in so many cases (remember those rape gangs)?

Because the police and CPS are fundamentally less than 100% perfect and frequently also get in wrong in instances that are nothing to do with race, religion, "culture" etc, so no surprise these cases are also subject to the same whims and inconsistencies.

It very much does mean that Islam is being given due preference by our police forces

Nah, it's the same aforementioned incompetence and inconsistency, human intransigence, that rears it's head in everything these mechanisms of State touch.

ahead of the law being changed. Which the pro islam MPs will do as soon as elected

Tell me more about these several hundred "pro-Islam" MP's in waiting. Given that they will need around 330 to form a working majority and pass your pro-Islam laws, I'm struggling to see how this is going to be facilitated by the roughly 6-6.5% Muslim minority in the UK, especially when that 6.5% includes all the under-16s who don't have a vote, and the fact huge numbers of rural and non-English constituencies have next to no Muslim constituents at all.

Do you think they'll all rush off to join their respective "Friends of Israel" PLP groups?

Weird post. Brexit wasn’t a right / left issue. Plenty of Tories supported Remain. Many on the Left supported Brexit.

For someone who claims to be ‘well informed’ you seem to have missed a number of high profile current issues. I’ll let you have some time to read up a bit and then come back to me. 👍

Put it this way, if some ‘Christofascists’ in America are your biggest concern atm, you’ve got quite a bit of catching up to do.

We have accepted it. You won. It's shit. Do you admit it's shit?

I didn't win. I didn't vote for Brexit. I was merely pointing out there is bad losers on both sides.

what rules can the UK make now that they could not make when in the EU?

A trade deal signed with the US meant that any trade dispute has to be resolved by US courts, any future government that made legislation, subsidised or favoured a UK company that reduced a US company from making their projected profit or having access to a tender could sue the UK government and would be arbitrated by a New York court, the UK would have to accept US standards. How is that making our own rules? It makes us a rule taker not a rule maker. When you are small you have these things imposed on you. When you stand with strong allies, you can be a part of rule making.

There was a time when we sat at the table and drafted these laws, how we have to accept them when we want to trade with the EU.

According to Camilla Long,Sunday Times journalist, Hannah Spencer,former trainee plasterer has a £1.2 million property portfolio. Could she be one of these evil private landlords?

Do your research. She has a property. Her ex husband brought a property while they were together which her name is still on. The press have decided that 2 properties worth 600k sounds much worse if you describe it as a 1.2 million property portfolio. And we only have the journalist's word for it that the properties are actually worth 600k each.

This is what the right wing press, funded by the ultra rich, does to politicians on the left. They try to undermine messages about fairness and equality by smearing politicians on the left. Corbyn was attacked for being a millionaire because his London house, bought for 300k, increased in value to an estimated £1million. It's just rubbish.

More proof of how the right wing are terrible losers

Come on - if someone paints themselves as a trainee plasterer you don't expect them to live in a £600,000 home. Lots of people live in £600,000 homes - but they also don't give the impression they are on a trainee plasters income.

Former trainee plasterer. Former.

She said she was a plumber and a fitter, but did a plastering course recently. She never claimed to be a trainee plasterer. She seems to have been in the building trade for 18 years and it would not be unusual for a builder to buy a house, do it up and repeat with more expensive houses. £600k is a 3 bed semi in a posh area of Manchester - it's not a mansion.

She left school at 16 and went into the building trade. The journalist who wrote that article went to a private school, Oxford, and has an estimated worth of 5 million. It's just rubbish designed to discredit her.

She’s never said that. She’s been a qualified plumber for over a decade, the plastering qualification was to add another string to her bow. Amazing how the right wing supporters who are supposed to applaud success and aspiration can’t stand it when the successful person doesn’t fit their stereotype.

she Has her own business and works hard. She wants that for all working people.

her property portfolio consists of her own house and the house she shared with her former partner who has not taken her name off the deeds. She is not a landlord. The Times is being disingenuous as always to smear a woman who has worked hard and made her own way in the world and has empathy and wants the world to not be run solely for the rich. She wants everyone to have the opportunity to pay their bills, go on holiday, have a decent life and put food on the table. Not struggle.