Dd, autism and cake - Thread 2

[bendmeoverbackwards]

I had no idea that my first thread would fill up and I am in awe and overwhelmed at the amount of support.

I am going to re-read all the responses and make a plan. Thank you, this has been eye opening.

Hi. I haven't read all of the first thread but I did want to say that I have a daughter who is diagnosed asd. She is in her mid 20s now and lives with her boyfriend. When she was 19, things were very difficult and they remained difficult for several years but we are through this now.

I found that what worked best was to never contradict her or offer alternatives etc. Everthing had to be on her terms. Once I fundamentally committed to this, everything got SO much easier.

I know it's seen as giving in, being manipulated etc but it's what worked here - for all of us.

She hated surprises so for birthday presents I only ever got her what she wanted.

A lot of asd girls go into full on mega control mode when they are under pressure and they can fixate on what you did or didn't do. My daughter had plenty of fixation over things I had done!

At the end of the day you can't fix things and she won't start being reasonable. My advice is to simply leave her to whatever she wants/thinks for now and hope it will get better.

I'm sorry she won't have therapy. That worked well here. We also did equine sessions which were therapeutic if not actual therapy. Would she do that?

This sounds so draining for
you OP, I do notice 90% of what you say is about the past.
If your DD is adamant the diagnosis is wrong have you ever asked her why she’s letting it rule her life?
I think you both need to stop looking back and tell her that. There is no point her being a snob about university when she has no qualifications.
She seems incredibly manipulative and vicious, you’ve indulged her long enough, time to stop being her punchbag.

If you cut her off financially is she expecting the dwp to be as flexible to her needs and wants if she is in denial about her autism assessment. She is likely to in that case be found fit to work and find herself sanctioned and be without any money for months at a time.

To be honest, given her history, I’d wager the school she liked wouldn’t have worked out either. You won’t ever know really but had she gone to that one and it not worked, you’d have been ruminating that you should have tried the private school.

you really can’t win here but your own ruminations are holding you back from having boundaries.

I agree.

This is pointless OP. Going over all the what ifs. You gave your DD a great opportunity by sending her to a private school, and a chance to make friends locally. Who knows if the other school would have worked out. You don’t have anything to feel guilty about. You did your best at the time for your whole family, which is all any of us can do. And Covid hit & we all had to manage.

At this stage, stop looking back. You are where you are. Go forwards. You’re ruminating. Your DD3 is ruminating & somewhat looking for excuses and to blame you for where she is at.

Take the lessons you learnt parenting the older two and start applying them. Rules & boundaries.

I think the snobbery is very interesting. I suspect from what OP has said that she is very bright & she knows it.

But what is to be snobby about when she hasn’t actually achieved anything?

Many many children have to work very hard to get to places she is looking down on. And good for them. And she is sitting in her bedroom thinking it’s not good enough for her.

Absolutely spot on @the7Vabo I have tried to explain that nothing is handed on a plate and having a good brain doesn’t ’entitle’ you to anything. She’s got to realise that hard work is involved to get anywhere in life.

Honestly I wish you could see how pointless this rumination on the past is. Don’t want to out myself but there’s a running thing in my family about what if my autistic sibling had done X Thing differently as a child best part of 30 years ago. I could honestly cry with the amount of time they and our parents have wasted on this discussion over the years. I just want to bang their heads together and say IT HAPPENED MOVE ON. I honestly don’t know what the motivation is behind going over it over and over again but I suspect it’s that none of them have ever said “stop, I don’t want to discuss this any more as it’s not productive.” Have you tried trying to break the cycle like that with your daughter?

Also have you spoken to her about career ambitions? What fields is she interested in? Never mind uni she needs an ultimate aim.

I really agree with the above poster - in my experience with my autistic son I have give him 'permission' (for want of a better word!) to stop ruminating / obsessing over something.

He gets into a vicious cycle, always has done since he was little and he really responds to being told it's okay, we've moved on now, we aren't going to talk anymore about it as it isn't doing anyone any good.

The first few times we tried this, of course there was a big push back but now he's used to it he sees the value in not going round and round on an issue.

I think it'll really help both you and your daughter to stop wondering what could have been and focus on the present and future - it'll be a lot healthier and happier for everyone.

I get what you're saying and I agree somewhat. If she's on social media, some groups of young people seem hell bent on classifying quite dull and ordinary formative experiences as life changing and traumatic. There is a tendency (I don't want to class it as a trend) in some autistic communities for labelling every difficult experience they have had as Trauma with a capital T, and anybody who disagrees slightly Just Isn't Supportive and Doesn't Get It. Especially in groups of young autistic people. The same tendencies are seen in young LGBT+ communities, especially with people who experience themselves as T.

I also think that what some autistic people experience as a traumatic experience is very different to what a mentally healthy stable NT adult, would.

Autistic people DO experience the world in a way that NT people can't fully grasp. I'm AuDHD and there are some people whose autistic experiences I just can't comprehend (and no, that's not because I don't experience empathy). Autistic people's experiences of life with their condition are SO very diverse and varied. It can be such a tricky path to navigate, trying to keep reason and rationality and proportionality, whilst trying not to throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to their lived experiences.

Yeah but, this young woman is adamant she ISNT ND.

Yes okay that's a slight spanner in my theory then isn't it 😂

Has anyone ever suspected BPD (now known as EUPD)?

The sensitivity to perceived rejection rang bells.

No one must ever be diagnosed with EUPD these days apparently. They are all misdiagnosed ASD females don’t you know? They have ‘rejection sensitivity dysphoria’. Nooone has ever explained to me in what way this does apparently differ from a) normal experience and b) EUPD

It’s a tale as old as time. When one label gets too stigmatised we invent a different one. It’s just different words to describe the same phenomenon. I am less and less interested in diagnoses these days since everyone has a list of them as long as their arm. Formulation is much more important to me.

What do you mean by formulation @Shrinkhole?

I'm not sure what you mean by formulation, either, @Shrinkhole.

I don't know if people are still being diagnosed with EUPD - they were 2 years ago when my friend's daughter was diagnosed. I see autism-like traits in her. I'm not sure what current theory suggests, but I've heard a theory in recent years that it should be considered a form of neurodiversity. That makes a lot of sense to me. There's a lot of overlap of symptoms in neurodiverse people, though their diagnoses may overall fit into different labels.

RSD differs from a NT person's experience because of the strength of the way that perceived rejection affects the individual.

As far as I understand it, it's perfectly possible to have both RSD and EUPD.

My understanding is that EUPD has its root in childhood traumas whereas Autism doesn’t.

Sorry formulation is a bit technical. I mean something like a narrative rather than a one word diagnostic category. This is something psychologists always did. It would summarise the predisposing factors (like a family history) and things that might be worsening matters (chronic pain, abusive relationship) or helping (enjoyable job) These days I prefer to write a summary paragraph usually addressed to the patient rather than just a one word diagnosis which usually fails to sum up the complexity.

But you could have both and people with neurodivergence have a lower threshold/ higher frequency of experiencing trauma is the theory. Therefore it doesn’t help me to distinguish and since neither is treatable with medication and both could be helped with appropriate therapy such as DBT it doesn’t seem so important to me to add an EUPD diagnosis where a person already has an ASD one.

Oh that sounds a little unempathetic. Generally these are people who are really struggling in life.

I think from the OP’s daughter’s perspective it would be helpful for her to understand most people struggle at some point in life.

Yes, people who are on the extreme or even mid end of the autism spectrum may have significant struggles.

But NT people can struggle with social anxiety, OCD, depression etc.

DD seems very caught up in the label which may not be helpful.

@bendmeoverbackwards - Hi OP - I was just thinking about you. I hope that life has gotten calmer and easier for you ❤️

Thank you for thinking of me.

Still not much progress, Dh and I are discussing what to do about dd’s allowance. We currently give her a (generous) monthly allowance for clothes/haircare etc. Getting her to do any chores is very difficult. We really need to sort this so she contributes in some way to the household. Unfortunately I’ve got to the stage where I’m cautious about making changes in case her mental health plummets. With the PDA aspect, I’ve noticed that she does things when the pressure is off.

With her opening up more , has she actually suggested any solutions at all? A way to move forward? I’m not talking about doing what she wants when she wants it, but practical, reasonable solutions. If you haven’t yet, ask her. You are treating her as an adult, you are giving her control.