Dd, autism and cake - Thread 2

[bendmeoverbackwards]

I had no idea that my first thread would fill up and I am in awe and overwhelmed at the amount of support.

I am going to re-read all the responses and make a plan. Thank you, this has been eye opening.

School non attendance simply became an option after Covid. Teenagers aren’t stupid -we were very accomplished liars and manipulators (although our goals were more to get to a party than lock ourselves away in our rooms for years).

😡

Speaking as the parent one one who wanted desperately to go back but couldn’t, you are talking bollocks. I’d hate to live through all that hell and anxiety again.

So many children were affected so negatively by Covid and lockdown.

My dd (not my ND child), was admitted to a psychiatric hospital at the end of 2020. She had already had a diagnosis of PTSD and major depression, but the lockdown just exacerbated everything, and she just could not cope. She tried to run out in front of a car, and was then admitted to the psychiatric unit immediately. The thing is, that I did not even pick up on just how bad things were, until this happened.

There are a lot of factors that may be coming into play for your dd. And perhaps everything in just now becoming unmanageable for her.

I know you said she is hesitant to therapy. So was my dd. But I stepped in and overrode her decision, because she was not in a position to make a proper decision for herself. No I wasn't popular, she hated me for it (for a while). I was not allowed to visit and she got a phone for 15 minutes a day. She cried for me to fetch her for 15 minutes every day in the first week. I didn't. It nearly took me out honestly, it was one of the worst times in my life.
But she needed to be there as she needed the help I could not give her.

I think you need to do whatever you can to get your dd to therapy. You are her parent, and it is your responsibility to do what is best for her. No matter how hard it is.

I will just add in, that my dd is flourishing now. She lives in another country, she decided to get out and travel and see a bit of the world. Has met the most incredible people in doing that and is enjoying her life so much. She is 23 now, so also still a young adult. I never would have imaged this is where she would be 5 years ago.

It is hard. And @bendmeoverbackwards it really is okay to step back and say you need help to help her. You cannot keep doing this alone.

I just wanted to come on and tell you something my own diagnosing psychiatrist said about trauma.

She said it's uncommon for later diagnosed people to not have trauma because to get older and not already have a diagnosis means a lifetime of unmet needs.

I was awarded a dual diagnosis of cPTSD and autism but was told that if I hadn't had enough evidence for autism I would just have been diagnosed with cPTSD.

Getting an autism diagnosis can be traumatic because it makes you look back at your life and all the ways people missed that you were autistic and so allowances were never made. It makes you question whether they did recognise you were different but decided to hold you unfairly to the same standards as everybody else, and so you just keep failing over and over because you're not like everybody else. There are small daily events that just build up like death by a thousand paper cuts.

It takes some people a lot longer to realise that our parents and caregivers were just doing their best, and that it's only over time that knowledge grows, and things happen exactly as they were supposed to in order for the diagnosis to be recognised when it is.

Honestly her behaviour sounds absolutely infuriating. I don’t know how you’re putting up with it.

What I would be minded to do is spell out to her clearly she is an adult whether she likes it or not. She needs to work out what she wants to do with her life and then, very importantly, create a plan to move towards it being realistic about what options are currently on the table for her. Regardless of how she feels about things from her teens, she is where she is.

I’m also of the mindset of education or work, and I don’t think I would be willing to continue to fund her without this. You might want to consider giving her a deadline after which monetary support will be turned off. Her life is actually quite comfortable and so perhaps there is too little incentive to do anything so I would suggest you dial this down. Else I fear you’ll be facing the same battles years down the road with her whining about your “lies” and petty birthday cake level drama.

Is there anybody else in her life that she looks up to or would listen to? For example, does she have any aunts/uncles or do you have any adult friends that she might admire or look up to who could encourage her to look at the horizons? I appreciate this is not the same but the situation reminds me of Aunt Ada in the book Cold Comfort Farm and how the character is eventually encouraged to stop dwelling on some unspecified traumatic incident matter and open up the world.

As someone said to me the other day, sometimes friction is needed. People get used to the status quo and only when something starts to make that status quo uncomfortable do things change.

If you continue as you are (which all your updates indicate you will do), you're not helping her. She can still turn things around and be productive and happy in her early 20s. But if you and DH allow the status quo to continue you're unintentionally holding her back.

She's going to push back against friction, whether it's angry or more manipulative tactics like this note She's just sent. But think of the long game and hold your position.

Interestingly my ADuHD youngest resurrects the dynamic of being shitty to and about me when we are altogether as a family. It’s like she wants to go back to the teen dynamic. Her sisters don’t tolerate anymore though and pick her up on it.

This. Be the parent OP.

I think you’ve stopped going back & forth over the cakes which is good.

But keep it going. She’s capable of understanding - I love you, I will always love you but me doing certain things for you is actually holding you back. So stepping back is actually an act of love. You need to learn to sit with anxiety now or you never will.

We are all on our own journey. Our families can love & support us but the drive to overcome has to come from within.

She has to realise a few things such as not liking your birthday isn’t usual nor is feeling anxious about growing up.

You being “cold” is her interpretation of what you are doing, she knows you love her.

The autism is harder but you’ve done all the right things - looking for alternative schools, offering therapy.

She’s also benefitted from you being able to fund all these things, but yet won’t listen to you talk about work within accusing you of “guilt tripping” her. Is it guilt tripping or is it a does or reality?

Austism is hard and coupled with Covid is really hard. But it’s pick yourself up time. My elderly mother had to go to therapy after Covid to handle going out. She’s 75 post 4 major surgeries. Life is hard for a lot of people. Teenagers don’t have any perspective on this so need to be guided.

It is a good thing that she is speaking honestly to you now. You already knew that lying about the assessment was a bad thing.

Have you spoken about why you did that, explained and apologised to her? I guess you probably have done but I think you and DH should write to her again. The key thing is that yes it was a mistake to go about it that way but it was done from a place of love and concern about her.

Whilst lots of adults see an autism diagnosis as validating and a good thing I have met a lot of DC who do feel the opposite. They feel stigmatised and that they are labelled as defective or wrong. How it is handled is key.

Maybe you can offer her family therapy so that you can all talk this out in a safe environment? I think it would be such a good thing.

On the other hand I do hate how everything is ‘trauma’ these days. I doubt anything else did happen it’s just that the internet labels almost anything as a traumatic event likely to cause PTSD these days which I think is offensive to people with actual PTSD. She has a lot of time to spend on Google and Chat GPT getting these views validated. ‘Trauma changes your brain’ is a further abdication of personal responsibility. Traumatised people don’t have carte Blanche to shout and swear at others and behave bizarrely over birthday cake any more than people with ASD do. All people have some responsibility to lean how to behave towards others her included.

You do have common ground to move forward on here. She doesn’t want to be unhappy or to behave as she does and she wants to be treated as an adult but for you to have a loving relationship. Excellent. So do you! Keep talking.

Validation of someone’s feelings is nearly always good and more validation than you think is usually good as long as you don’t come off fake eg NOT ‘I’m sorry you felt that way’ in a flat tone but more ‘wow that must have been terrible when x,y,z happened’

The key is that you can validate a persons feelings without agreeing that they are justified or agreeing with their behaviour.

If you try to validate feelings before then moving onto problem solving that is usually better received. Trying to offer solutions before listening is often perceived as ‘cold’

so maybe ‘I’m so glad that you are telling me how difficult birthdays are for you. I guessed a bit but I didn’t really know how bad you felt. It must be so hard for you when ‘quote back thing she’s said eg you are another year older and you don’t feel your life is moving on’

Then move on to problem solving ‘you know we don’t have to make a big deal out of it at all next year if you don’t want to. We can always just do nice stuff the whole year and it doesn’t have to be linked to that date if that’s easier? Would you prefer that? Or is there anything else that would make it easier?’

This is stuff that I learnt on a DBT course BTW. DBT is genius. Maybe read up some of Marsha Linehans writing. She has EUPD and the therapy is designed for that but it helps lots with anyone who is distressed and having difficulty with relationships and emotional regulation.

What you want is a high support but high challenge relationship as that is one that fosters change. If you only support but don’t challenge as you are doing now you foster dependency. If you only challenge but don’t support, as DD accuses you of doing, then you are perceived as hostile and critical and still no change happens. You ideally want to maintain your supportive but challenging approach in the face of whatever is thrown at you rather than veering wildly from lots of support to getting pushed over the edge and being angry and rejecting but that’s easier if you are a therapist than a parent!

Shrinkhole
It is a good thing that she is speaking honestly to you now. You already knew that lying about the assessment was a bad thing.

Can we please stop overdramatising the “lying about the assessment” thing?

Parents tell their kids white lies from time to time. It’s common. OP did it with the best of intentions. It really isn’t as big a deal as some posters are making out, and absolutely nowhere as big a deal as OP’s DD is suggesting.

OP has been buying into the narrative that she’s done something terrible. With hindsight it didn’t work out but so what? She needs to view the whole thing less emotively and with more perspective herself in order to withstand her DD’s attempts to make her feel guilty.

My line to OP’s DD on this subject would be exactly that:

• that she did it with the best of intentions to make the process of the assessment as easy as possible but with hindsight would have taken a different approach.
• And that this sort of thing is very normal in parent child relationships (see eg Santa) and the kids are usually a bit annoyed and then move on.
• That DD’s reaction and framing of it is out of all proportion with something that was pretty minor and is unusually extreme and it is this reaction (not OP’s actions) which is affecting her life.
• That it is wrong to blame OP for her situation and needs to take accountability for herself.
• And that if she can’t adjust her reaction to it on her own, that she should have therapy.
• That this is not a problem that can ever be solved by looking backwards and blaming her well meaning parents, and that if she wants a better life she needs now to address her issues herself.

It was a long post for you to just quote that bit from. I don’t think lying about an autism assessment to an 11 year old is on a par with lying to a toddler about Santa. I live by honesty is the best policy and I cannot imagine doing what OP did on this one. However other than that (as is clear from the rest of my post) I completely agree that DDs reaction is disproportionate and is holding her back and she needs to move on from it.

Sorry @Shrinkhole I was using that as a lazy example but there’s been quite a lot of people on the last thread reinforcing the notion that the assessment thing was bad - and I am conscious that the OP is liable to beat herself up about it which in turn undermines her ability to deal with her DD firmly. Apologies.

@murphys she’s not just reluctant about therapy, she point blank refuses and we’ve been trying for years. What am I supposes to do, bundle her into the car? You can’t force anyone into therapy.

I do feel guilty about lying @Shrinkhole She was 11.5 so not a young child. It’s best to be honest with dc including their healthcare. A better option would have been to discuss it with dd, she wouldn’t have wanted the assessment at that time but we could have left it with her to think about. It would have given her agency. And maybe we wouldn’t be in this position now. I regret that decision 😢

In which case I’d tell her that I don’t want to hear trauma etc as an excuse. You can’t say you have a mental health issue and that’s why you behave how you do AND don’t want to behave like it. But also refuse any help for it.

You might want to consider giving her a deadline after which monetary support will be turned off

I am actually thinking seriously of doing this. Maybe tapering it down over the coming months so she’s got some time.

I’ve suddenly realised what this whole scenario reminds me of. Have you read Cold Comfort Farm? One of the characters tried to control her entire family because she “saw something nasty in the woodshed” when she as a child. I’m not trying to make light of your daughter’s experience or difficulties but the parallel is there. In the end the lady was convinced that she was having a horrible time sitting at home and would have a much nicer one if she moved abroad and had fun. That’s what your DD needs really, somewhere else to be or something else she would actively enjoy doing. One thing that’s clear is that she is really miserable and blaming it on this thing. What does she/did she actively enjoy? If you could wave a magic wand and make a life you think she’d enjoy when she’s say 21 what where and how would it be?

I can’t just brush this off as dramatic

It is deliberately super manipulative and you are playing right into it.

I think that you need to be very real with her that you are just a mum and a layperson here. You can't solve this trauma any more than you could surgically fix a heart defect. If she isn't open to therapy that's her choice, doesn't mean you can fix it instead.

And I could choose to be kind to myself and say if that’s the worst thing I’ve done as a parent (ie the white lie) then that’s pretty good going. But I just can’t shake this feeling (which comes and goes) that life might look very different now had I involved her in the process.

What's done is done. Both you and her need to focus on going forwards. I think there is more to her behaviour than just autism, she's so fixated and controlling.

So you all agree I should have done this 8 years ago? 😢

Actually I’ve just realised what this means. If I can’t get over my regret and ruminate about the past, I’m doing it exactly the same as her, right?