Dd, autism and cake - Thread 2

[bendmeoverbackwards]

I had no idea that my first thread would fill up and I am in awe and overwhelmed at the amount of support.

I am going to re-read all the responses and make a plan. Thank you, this has been eye opening.

I mentioned before that young people with PDA often don't understand social hierarchies - they speak to adults like they are their peers. Do you think that your daughter regards you as a parent as such ie someone whose experience and values are worthy of respect?

I also think @bendmeoverbackwards you need to keep your eye on the bigger picture. Even if she does accuse you of being inconsistent and says she’s confused, so what 🤷‍♀️? As others have said, anything to stop the cycle and it’s in her interests too to put this behind her and move on.

Obviously if the years of discussing it with you haven’t reached a resolution then she might do well to discuss it with a professional who’s less emotionally involved but this is a separate issue. And do not jump to finding someone for her or messaging her about that, she has to try to sort it herself. That said, I do think she’d be more likely to consider a counsellor/ therapist if she doesn’t have you (seemingly) in that role.

Can you explain you want to understand more about how you can help her, but not just go over the same old lines again. Obviously she isn't happy with your (completely reasonable and responsible) parenting decisions when she was much younger but more lamenting isn't going to change that now. What you are willing to discuss and support her on is what she needs help with today to make progress: therapy? CV support? FE college application? Etc

Can you tell her if she thinks she's traumatised and she wants to discuss the past then the place to do that is counselling/therapy. You can offer to pay for that? And don't entertain any more of the 'I'm traumatised, it's changed my brain, there's no recovering from trauma ' nonsense.

My goodness, you really are in her thrall. 😔

You are allowed as a human, as a parent, as an adult… to ask for more information one day and then later decide that you don’t think it’s helpful and do something different. Isn’t that what you’ve done?

I do feel for you - you’ve been having a circular conversation for more than 3 years that is framed by the assumption that you are a bad parent who needs forgiveness. No wonder you are so easily manipulated - you are being abused.

But it doesn’t matter if you were right or wrong in what you did because it happened and you can’t change it. And you being sorry (not that you should be) won’t help your daughter either. So it’s time for a change.

And this is the opposite of a u turn.

This is you breaking a toxic cycle and actually trying to get some progress.

It’s not a u-turn, you clarified her thoughts and on reflection the next day you’ve decided the best course of action moving forward is to not go over and over this same narrative. That’s -a logical response , most people adapt, change tact, they learn, they problem solve. Generally people wouldn’t have had this same circular never ending discussion and resulting impasse. Quite frankly any movement, u-turn or not would be better than being stuck as you are.

And even if she thinks that’s unfair or awful, that’s OKAY. You are not forever bound to her logic and emotions and you are able to change your mind and make new choices too. If not for her immediate benefit then for yours and the rest of the household. I wouldn’t cling to the notion she was opening up to you because from your updates it seems more like it was the same “revelation” of your awfulness, that’s not her opening up and reflecting or open communication it’s just been oppressive repeated accusations that enable her to remain stuck.

You cannot overthink her emotions because at the very least she doesn’t seem to interpret things in a way that seems logical to you, or anyone in the home. You can control your emotions but it’s not always our job as parents to fix every negative thought or emotion of our kids, she can be confused that you’re finally at the end of your rope with the situation. That’s fine, she will have to at some point manage her disappointment and confusion. People don’t always do what we want them to do, I’m sure you feel that just as much as her but as you’ve experienced, wanting someone to do what you think is for the best, doesn’t mean you get what you wish for.

I think this is a very good suggestion. Op isn’t the correct person to speak to about trauma, trauma damaging her brain etc. That’s something she needs to speak to a medical professional either a Gp or counsellor about and get appropriate therapy or treatment.
Op is willing to fund and facilitate treatment eg lifts there.
You aren’t being awful by refusing to listen to about this instead you are doing correct thing of wanting her to speak to a qualified professional which is in her best interests. Don’t feel guilt.
I’d also say that talk about trauma again comes across as she’s been watching tik tok, type trauma changes your brain into tik tok and you can see the unqualified stuff she’s been watching.

I’m pretty sure all this was discussed at length in the last thread. People suggested counselling etc and was just told by the OP she refuses to go.

To be fair, it’s very difficult to get an autistic young adult (even older teen) to engage in services they don’t want to. Part of my dd’s autism means she goes uncontrollably mute, so literally can’t engage at all in any kind of therapy or help.

I do however, feel OP’s daughter just likes to manipulate all situations and the OP. OP needs to work out a strategy that works for her and her family, but just seems unable to do this. She keeps coming here to ask posters about every single little thing that has been said and done, how should she react to it. Then gets many differing opinions and so is back to square one. I think this is part of the problem here. OP needs to work out her own thoughts/wants etc herself 🤷‍♀️ I mean that kindly.

Yes that’s definitely the case she has been refusing to go but that doesn’t mean Op has to step in instead. It’s the DD’s choice.
From a mum guilt point of view Op isn’t leaving her with no one to speak to just saying I’m not speaking to you about this any longer. It’s fine for Op to put that boundary in place. Perhaps if Op isn’t as available and engaging the dd may agree to speak to a counsellor.

Agree completely. OP is far too engaging and enabling here. I get where it comes from, but it must stop, it should have long ago. Boundaries, routines, expectations, consequences are what’s needed.

OP needs to work out a strategy that works for her and her family, but just seems unable to do this. She keeps coming here to ask posters about every single little thing that has been said and done, how should she react to it. Then gets many differing opinions and so is back to square one

I think OP is terrified of upsetting her daughter and is still hoping that things will eventually come right without any parental intervention.

Agree. But that’s not going to happen. OP needs to get out of her own head, get some confidence back in herself, then be pro active going forward. 🤞🏻

Op is just so close and enmeshed and it’s been going on so long I suspect it will take something drastic to move things along.
I’ve nearly posted a few times why don’t you and husband go on a 3 week cruise (where phones don’t work) So it could be a positive like Op choosing to travel or even go out a lot in evenings without her phone. It sounds like the dd waits for Op to come in from work and make her a meal and sits with her in evening. Just change routine and don’t be so available for a while. Would also help dd realise Op is a person not just mum.
Alternatively I suspect it will be something like ill health or a hospitalisation that disrupts the current state of affairs and Op just won’t have capacity to deal with her DD’s shenanigans.

It sounds like she in some way thinks she is looking at university and course options as a favour to you rather than for her own future?
I don’t have any advice really but feel like this way of thinking needs to be turned around. I don’t have a child with autism but my 18 year old has other additional needs so I do understand to some extent how difficult it can be to engage with them when they are in a negative mindset.

Not any more. As the days go on my confidence is gaining and I am looking longer term. And I am preparing myself for dd to be upset/angry with me and that’s ok.

That’s great to hear OP. Remember you only need to do what works for you and your family - what works for one does not work for another. Don’t continue to indulge your dd, or fear for what she may (but will likely never) do. Be clear in your own head of what you want and expect moving forward. Stick to it.

It really upset teen DD when I kept reinforcing that I was her mother, not her friend. I was mean and cruel apparently. But years later she gets it now. My job was her long term development into a independent adult, not her personal shopper/therapist/punching bag.
Keep up the effort, its hard but worthwhile.

Had a conversation with dd on the phone today. She’s still trying to convince me that she’s telling me new information (not true), and that I said I’d help her and that this new approach is not helping her. I stayed calm and firm and said listening to her and responding has not helped her in 2.5 years. She got very upset and sobbing and as hard as that is to hear as a mother, I’m maintaining my position. Im telling myself it’s like a toddler tantrum. She accused me of being ‘cold’. I said ok. I’m planning to still tell her regularly that I love her so hopefully that will mitigate any perceived coldness. But I won’t get drawn back into any further discussions about the past.

Well done OP! That can’t have been easy! Keep going!

Well done, you sound like you're doing fantastically.

Just one thing, do you have much in the way of support yourself? Exactly the same as toddler tantrums, you can know with all the certainty in the world that riding them out is the right thing to do, but still need a good glass of wine and a toddler free time in the evening to replenish your own reserves after a day of screaming. Just make sure you have some way of filling your own cup because it sounds like you're on course for a few more difficult conversations like this one before the message sinks in.

@bendmeoverbackwards You're doing great! Just keep focusing on how much happier and more fulfilled she will be in the long run once she's doing something with her life.

It sounds like you are doing well, OP.

I would maybe respond to her saying 'you said you would help me and this isn't helping me' with: I am doing what I think is right, I am an adult like you are and we can all make our own decisions on what we think is right. i hear what you are saying and I respect that you disagree, but you are old enough to understand now that I am a person, and I can't just do what you want all the time, especially if I don't think it's the right thing to do. I love you more than anything, you are my precious precious daughter. Do you fancy going to the shop later and gettign some treats?

Yes that’s exactly right. You tell her that you love her and indeed you do want to help her but not by going over the past. If she wants to talk about the ‘trauma’ you are happy to pay for a therapist, you are happy to help her with any constructive suggestions about her future and you still want to hang out with her and watch a movie or whatever you just don’t want to go over and over the same old stuff and be the emotional punchbag any more.

Definitely take some more time for yourself and your DH and other DC too. I was shocked that she texted you 20 times on a night out for no good reason. That’s just rude and self centred and disrespectful of you and DH. It will be good for you all to dismantle the enmeshed relationship a bit