Dd, autism and cake - Thread 2

[bendmeoverbackwards]

I had no idea that my first thread would fill up and I am in awe and overwhelmed at the amount of support.

I am going to re-read all the responses and make a plan. Thank you, this has been eye opening.

But you’re continuing the never ending loop as well. Just stop.

Have you done any research for uni?
No you’re being mean.
It’s a shame you feel that way. Later this week we need to discuss your allowance. This can either be done face to face or over text. But either way it will be stopping/being reduced soon.
Why are you being so mean???
It’s a shame you feel that way. See you at dinner. I’ll text you the details about your allowance/chores (or whatever you are doing with allowance and chores or job)
I’m going to kill myself because of you!!
In that case I need to go and call 999 immediately if you feel suicidal.

Honestly you need to just stop pandering now and just respond factually and don’t get drawn into any discussion about you being mean or her hurting herself.

You will keep going around in circles if you continue to engage in these discussions with her. I would just say breezily that of course you’re nice to her, but that doesn’t mean you can sit back and watch her waste her life doing nothing.

I do think you need to have a serious conversation with her about your expectations and how you plan to stop her allowance if she doesn’t meet those expectations. Attending university seems like an unachievable goal for her at the moment, so I wouldn’t even include it as an option. But doing chores at home, finding a job or at least some volunteer work would be perfectly reasonable.

I very much agree that you are stuck in loop. This back and forth of you need to do this, I can’t you are being mean isn’t helping anyone.
I think if you realise that nothing you say or do will ever be good enough and it’s not for you to fix her then you can move on.
I saw a flash of determination from you when I suggested that dd3 would inherit the house by default to detriment of her sisters. That’s what you need to channel.

I honestly think you need to stop asking her these types of questions- it’s getting you nowhere and starts this endless cycle of manipulation. Just stop engaging and leave her to it. But create an environment where there’s an incentive for her to change- turn the WiFi off, stop paying a generous allowance, say she has to pay her own phone bill if she goes over the data allowance etc. Go on holiday. Live your life. She’s an adult.

Honestly, if her doing anything useful is predicated on you being nice then it’s not going to work- she’s got to want it for herself. And where has “being nice”
got to so far? Do you really believe that if you go back to “nice” anything will change?

If you must ask questions can her dad do it?

And on the allowance, I don’t get your resistance to just doing it. Obviously not in a combative sense but just to say, “You’re an adult now, of course you’ll always have a roof over your head and food with us, but you need to make a plan for the next 5 years. This could include, working, studying, claiming benefits etc but that’s up to you. As of August we’re reducing your allowance to x which has to cover your phone/ WiFi. Happy to help with forms etc if you have specific questions but otherwise ball’s in your court.”

Then just leave her to it- no questions about university, no finding things for her to do, no engaging with manipulation. But you must follow through. What do you think is so awful about doing this?

“DD parents don’t exist to “nice”, we exist to provide for you for a number of years and then you move out and find your own way”

You either take the opportunity to make choices with our support and move out over the next few either with or without further education but living here and contributing nothing practically or financially and blaming me isn’t an option. We will also be downsizing and retiring just the two of us”

Be truthful and honest.

It seems obvious to me that she is scared to do anything about future education or employment and is desperately thinking of reasons to push back on having to make any sort of decision. Hence she will only go to a university she doesn’t have the qualifications for or she would research but only if you say it in a certain way.
I think the only way forward is for you to do the research, book the meetings, make the application as if you were after a school place for her. She’s not going to be proactive and you don’t want her rotting in her room so you’ll need to do it. A lot of colleges are very geared up to the needs of autistic children.

OP I think you are looking for a way through this that doesn't involving upsetting your daughter in anyway and avoiding conflict with her. There isn't one. Well, there is and it involves letting her live with you rent and responsibility free for the rest of your life.

Thank you @Hellometime and everyone else. After years of living like this being manipulated by dd, it’s no surprise really that my confidence and resolve is lacking. And that confidence won’t suddenly change overnight, it will build in time. Knowing how to respond to her is a learning curve but I will get there.

I realise I sound very weak and I’m sure I’m being judged but after 2 very easy dc, this issue with dd3 has knocked me sideways. And I’m pleased I reached out for help on here, the replies have really made me think and determined to make changes.

Oh and I mentioned the uni courses to her because there are foundation years at some unis that can be started just with GCSEs.

I agree this is a mechanism of avoidance but not that this should lead to you doing it for her.

I think you should ask less questions. Put less pressure in that way but more change the incentives with the allowance etc.

I don’t think you asking her what she did repeatedly will have any positive benefit. I think you should back off the questioning and just do the allowance thing. Just set boundaries and don’t discuss them.

Your attention is rewarding clearly and you have given it for maladaptive behaviour up to now. You are fussing over her trying to coax her to do what you think would be good and it isn’t working. I think you really really need to back off, let her be and give attention for positive behaviour. Let her know that you are always there for her any time she wants to come to you with constructive suggestions but you aren’t up for listening to whinging about the past any longer.

Do you think that’s realistic though for someone who has been out of education for 3 years?
My understanding is foundation is for if a yp hasn’t got right qualifications for degree eg realised too late they needed a science A level or A level grades too low etc.
Access to higher education course is an A level equivalent and includes return to study techniques and will be set up to support those who have barriers to study like dd.

This is an access to higher education course at a college localish to me.
blackburn.ac.uk/study/adults/access-to-higher-education

Dunno, it depends on the person. My friend’s dd was in a similar situation - only had GCSEs and had been out of education for some years. She eventually decided to do a foundation year at Essex uni where she is now. She now has an offer from Cambridge for next year. I know they’re very different people but just an example to show that A levels or even an access course isn’t always necessary.

I’ve also found other uni courses that only require GCSEs, even at places like Bristol. I was surprised too but ultimately unis want bums on seats.

This was the Bristol one, they do a humanities course too - no A levels or equivalent required

https://www.bristol.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/2027/foundation-years/certhe-foundation-in-science-engineering-and-mathematics/

Honestly OP, I think you need to forget about uni for now. There are far more other pressing things to focus on first.

A foundation year would be a massive leap for a young adult who won't go to school or get a job. Its unrealistic. An access course in a supportive college would help build attendance and social skills to cope with third level.
Make part of month's money dependant on going to an open day maybe? Next months could be linked to application and from Sept linked to attendance.

Yes I am sure it is possible but she’s got to want to do it! I don’t know what happened with your friend but like others I think that your DD is not in that place at the moment. She might be in a few years but it’s a long way from where she is at the moment to a uni.

The small practical steps are the one to focus on, like a job, volunteering, chores, cooking for herself, maybe seeing friends, building bridges with family, earning some
money, maybe engagement with mental health services and then hopefully study. I think the university discussion has become totally toxic and a distraction and you need to knock it on the head.

The state she is in at the moment even if you got her to uni or on a foundation course I can almost guarantee she’ll cause you to shell out a fortune on “suitable” accommodation/ tuition, drop out almost immediately and then blame you.

But it’s full time and she’d need to live alone in Bristol? It doesn’t seem at all achievable for your dd from what you have posted.
She’d need to make her own meals, clean and do her washing, get up and out to lectures, speak to a tutor, cope with challenging academic work. I’d say there’s zero chance of her being able to do that by September 26 or even September 27.
I’d focus on a more achievable local or online access course (probably pt) where she can be heavily supported and scaffolded by you.

I presume friend’s dd lived at home and went to Essex?
I think parking all uni talk is wise.
I’ve picked up your desire for her to go to a decent university in your posts. You might be saying oh I don’t say that but it does come across in your posts to me as an unconnected 3rd party reading.
If she can’t even manage to reheat frozen pizza or clean her en-suite, being expected to cope at uni must seem impossible to her.

I agree with those saying drop the talk of uni and focus on small and incremental steps. If she raises the uni conversation I'd simply reply that I was parking the discussion because at the moment it's unachievable and there are more pressing issues.

Choose something small, focus on that, build up from there.

I’ve picked up your desire for her to go to a decent university in your posts. You might be saying oh I don’t say that but it does come across in your posts to me as an unconnected 3rd party reading.

@Hellometime I can say 100% it’s not the case. On a general level, I can see a lot of downsides to uni including having a huge debt at the end of it. Dh went to a poly after doing badly in his A levels and has had a successful career, there really is no university snobbery coming from us. And I have tried to communicate this to dd but any suggestion of alternative paths eg a BTEC, apprenticeship, job etc she has turned her nose up at.

I agree it will be too much for her this year. But I was just looking for my own curiosity to see the possible options for some point in the future.

If she got a part time job or some volunteering for now, I would be over the moon.

Don't be hard on yourself - we're all behind you 💐💐

Often it helps to offer 2 choices and expect one to be chosen. It means totally believing that she will choose one, not being apologetic or not sure.

This OP.. All this talk of uni is pretty unrealistic when right now your daughter is seemingly incapable of even doing a few chores round the house?!

Even this talk of uni feels like you just saying what she wahts to hear - she likes the idea of being in a position to consider university so you indulge it by encouraging it. She is doing no work or chores round the house and engaging with very little - why on earth would she be able to cope with uni!