Dd, autism and cake - Thread 2

[bendmeoverbackwards]

I had no idea that my first thread would fill up and I am in awe and overwhelmed at the amount of support.

I am going to re-read all the responses and make a plan. Thank you, this has been eye opening.

Yes how much is the allowance?

Write her a letter/ email giving her some notice and a plan for how it will reduce and what the choices are to avoid that. Keep it unemotional. I literally did exactly that with my DD. I then asked her did she get my email and she confirmed yes she did and a few days later (no doubt having raged about me in her diary and to her friends) she came and asked for help with her college application and with applying for part time jobs. The allowance never actually got cut as she did what we agreed would avoid that.
I’d want more than chores. This is your best leverage don’t waste it!

Some people are more resilient than others.

Name changed for this. OP, your DD reminds me of my now 33 year old sister. She can be lovely but is equally capable of being incredibly cold and manipulative. She has cut everyone out of her life (including two siblings she was once very close to - much like your DD she cut one of us off first. Just totally refused to engage one day because she felt her sister was 'talking down' to her. Second sibling maintained friendship out of a desire to not further rock the boat but was also cut off completely a few years later, for no reason that anyone can fathom) except her parents, and that's only because she lives with them. Has also gone through lengthy periods of not speaking with her father despite living in the same house.

Just like you, our mum has enabled her behaviour for a long time (still enables it). Refused to kick her out or demand anything of her, really. Cajoles her into doing small tasks around the house like cooking or folding laundry. Occasionally suggests courses or job applications but it goes nowhere because sister just refuses. She treats her like she's a fragile twelve year old instead of a woman approaching her mid-thirties. It has caused massive friction between our parents.

I don't know what the answer is, but I don't think the low-demand approach is helpful where someone is actually very capable, but just...chooses not to be. I don't think my sister will ever move out or have a career or any human interaction beyond my parents (when she allows this). No idea what she'll do when they pass. I think they'll both leave all their money to her (siblings don't object) and maybe she'll just keep living in their house and spending all day scrolling the internet but with even less company than she has now.

🤷

Beyond grim.

I’m so sorry to hear this @GoodWater thank you for sharing. I’m amazed at your parents decision about leaving all their money to her. Dh and I are very clear about a 3 way split in our wills.

Are you close to your other sibling? I hope so.

Yet another story that will spur me into action. I hope I can prevent this happening with my dd.

I do think you have massively underestimated the damage that enabling hours of unfettered access to social media has done. Content aside spending hours and hours of doom scrolling contributes to low mood, lethargy etc. She will have been accessing horribly damaging content too absolutely no doubt about it. Snap chat and tik tok have you down a rabbit hole due to algorithm and yes I’d suspect more than one account. I’d tackle that by saying you aren’t paying her phone from x date - 1/5? And will be turning WiFi off on day and overnight.
I think cutting the easy access to social media is the single best thing you can do and it’s entirely within your control.
The allowance. You have been mulling this over for months. I’d just confirm in writing from x date the allowance is significantly reduced. Maybe don’t add in the chores conditions initially just you’ll be down to £25 a month or whatever from 1/5.
I think the uni talk is pie in sky and maybe feels so remote to her. She’s only got GCSEs and been out of education 2.5 years.
Realistically she’s more at stage of doing a pt access to higher education course at a college with lots of support for students like her or online access course plus lots of scaffolding from you. I say pt as I can’t see her going from nothing to a ft course.

I'm not convinced she has PDA then. My PDA daughter has done pretty well considering - with "real" PDA what happens is that they can usually take part in society through the role playing. I was told it's like putting on a costume - so my daughter put on her school uniform and she was suddenly Primary School Girl and able to act as such. She has adopted all sorts of strategies over the years including a lot of make up for a while. It sounds to me like your daughter doesn't have these strategies, which will make it so much harder for her as she has nothing to hide behind, just herself. And if she perceives herself as inherently damaged due to the autism diagnosis, that might be too much for her.

I'm not convinced about the hard knock lessons others are suggesting. I suspect her mentsl fragility is real and needs support.

I'm not convinced about the hard knock lessons others are suggesting. I suspect her mentsl fragility is real and needs support.

@Arran2024 what would you suggest then?

That you look into mental health support and strategies. I'm not knowledgeable about this but maybe the autism/PDA is a red herring?

Yes, very close with my other sibling, thankfully. I miss my sister terribly, and I do periodically reach out to let her know I'm thinking of her, but I never get anything back.

Sibling and I have discussed the will situation and agreed it's now the only way we can 'help' our sister. I realise it's just enabling her further, the way I've criticised my mum for doing and ten years ago I would have argued against it, but the situation is now so entrenched that we're worried about what will happen when she runs out of money to live off.

I also really hope you can help your DD. Good luck.

That might be your intention Op. But a 3 way split will leave house to be sold from under her. If she refuses to move then she may end up inheriting house by default as court action to remove your autistic sister when she won’t engage with anywhere else to go is beyond the appetites of many siblings or may lead to friction between the two other siblings if one wants to evict and one doesn’t.

Op pays for a comfortable bedroom and en-suite plus cleaner. All her food. She’s still willing to pay her some allowance so the dd can buy things. Willing to fund private therapy/counselling. I suspect willing to fund an online course. Willing to take her places like theatre or ferry her to a pt job or volunteering if she showed willing.
All Op is expecting in return is some low level chores similar to you’d expect a 12 yr old to do, general civility to her family and some positive steps for future.
I honestly don’t see how this can be seen as in anyway harsh or tough. Op is being extremely supportive financially and emotionally.
Hash would be Op downsizing to a one bed over 55s bungalow or retiring abroad and saying you are on your own now. No one has suggested that.

Have you set up a trust for your asd daughter? I would strongly suggest you do that rather than leave her money directly, given her difficulties.

@Hellometime over my dead body will I allow this to happen. Dh and I plan to downsize maybe in 15 years time, at that point I will not be accommodating dd3 even if she goes into assisted living.

The problem is she's an adult, and she's refusing to engage with professionals who would help. I strongly suspect that if this is anxiety based, then op would stand a much higher chance of success if her dd was on SSRIs. But she won't/ can't engage with the gp, in therapy etc etc. I'd suggest that OP gets medical power of attorney, but for that she'd need her dd's approval. Unlikely.

Worth getting some specialist legal advice as to how best to manage things, agree with @Arran2024 about looking into trusts.
Without being too grim if you both die in a car accident tomorrow your two older daughters would have the immense burden of dealing with dd3.

Quite right op and don’t allow the guilt tripping from her or posters on here to force any further negative impact on your other dc.
if parents do plan to continually favour one child over the others, especially to the extent off writing some of them their children out of the will to favour other, they need to be open and honest. If one of the 3 cannot manage general daily living so is left the house and everything.. would you expect the other dc to run their life for them? Yes understandably when significant LD, but in ops situation, and where Dd3 has been so horrendous to her sisters?

@bendmeoverbackwards I’m not clear (based on what you have said so far) how you think your daughter would be eligible for supported living… and in any case to make this happen she would need assessment by the local council so she would need to engage with services.

As a parent of two young adults with physical disabilities who are also ND, I am bemused by your assumption your daughter would be eligible for this level of state assistance.

i suggest you focus on getting her to a point where she can support herself

Or resign yourself to paying for her lifestyle for the rest of her life… and yes that will likely mean short-changing your other children in inheritance.

These are the choices you are making right now. Please use them to galvanise your resolve.

I’m going to choose to be optimistic and believe that dd won’t be like this forever. Hopefully the combined effect of firm action from us and gaining maturity for her will allow her to live a full life.

@AintNoPartyLikeANumber10Party you’re right, I have no idea how supported living works. And right now I don’t need to. I was just making the point that I won’t be accommodating dd3 after a certain stage or when we decide to downsize, and she will have to stand on her own 2 feet whatever that entails.

Or resign yourself to paying for her lifestyle for the rest of her life… and yes that will likely mean short-changing your other children in inheritance.

Absolutely NO WAY. And it starts now.

And actually if dd can bake cakes, prepare simple food, be a responsible babysitter, go on public transport on her own (including into Central London) and go to restaurants with friends then she’s probably more capable than we give her credit for. I have high expectations of her, assuming she will still be at home at 30 is not helpful. Otherwise it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Not to alarm you op, but you have tk be prepared for that 'whatever that entails' part.

Honestly, the situation is very similar to my nephew:

Adopted by dsis at 7, diagnosed with asd PDA profile, Adhd around similar age, trauma in early childhood too).

At 18 the wheels fell off, dsis lost any control she may have had (and actually, her approach was pretty authoritarian, tried to gain control by banning his phone, stopping his allowance etc). She tried literally every avenue open to her (including power of attorney, sectioning), nephew just couldn't engage,not.with authorities, not with her, not with anyone. In the end, I'm afraid she ended up putting herself and remaining family first and told him he could no longer live with them.

He's currently jobless, homeless, penniless, and becoming increasingly involved incrime. While PDAers (if that is what we're dealing with) often can and do find their niche, the reality is that the most extreme cases can and do spiral - precisely because the young person cannot engage with the people they need to.

It upsets me to say that because I've always been a 'no problem is insurmountable' type of person, and I'll work tirelessly to find a solution. But if the new approach doesn't work, the old approach hasn't either, then you may need to be prepared to watch her fall. An impossible ask of any parent, yet sometimes necessary to preserve the remaining family.

I used to work with people with disabilities, many of whom were in assisted living. There is absolutely no way your daughter would be eligible for assisted living. If you don't manage to get her to a point where she is willing and able to be independent, then you are stuck with her for the rest of your life, and your other poor daughters are stuck with her after that.

Well quite.
👏🏼