Dd, autism and cake - Thread 2

[bendmeoverbackwards]

I had no idea that my first thread would fill up and I am in awe and overwhelmed at the amount of support.

I am going to re-read all the responses and make a plan. Thank you, this has been eye opening.

You do sound like a very nice mum 🙂.

You definitely need a consistent team approach while somehow avoiding DD feeling ganged up on.

None of that is what I've said at all. Nowhere have I said that taking no action is fine. I've said I understand how it got to that stage and why it has happened. I'm not championing a do nothing approach, I'm challenging the assumption that laying down strict structure and expectations too soon up front may be unwise.

Also, for op's dd to have been diagnosed with autism, the criteria for diagnosis is that symptoms must be prevalent and lifelong (evidenced before 5). It's quite common for autistic girls to hold things together until secondary school age. Despite my dd's significant challenges, she herself wasn't diagnosed until last month. If op's dd's challenges are not life long (?) then actually she may have every reason to challenge the diagnosis. BPD has been suggested.

No, but then again very few people would advice giving a 19 year old money and wifi so they can spend their time in their room looking at Tiktok, would they? I suppose that's the 19 year old version of icecream for dinner every night.

Oh OP I've just read all this and feel for you. But you have to let go of the past, own the reasons you sought her diagnosis and keep the line that the past can't be changed. I have 2 ND teens, one with a serious life long health issues on top of everything else, and I often talk about my lack of a magic wand. I can't fix their health, can't change the past, and that we all would love to, from their doctors and teachers to me and DH.

All you can do is start from where she is now. Would she see an online Doctor or therapist? A Life coach? Do a basic animal care course in the local college? You have to keep reinforcing that she has to start from here and there is nothing that can be done about it now, dreams of academic universities are just dreams. Her actions need gentle consequences. Dont pick fights but tell her whens she rude or unkind or deluded. If she threatens to hurt herself and you are worried, call 111 or 999. And get all the support you can for yourself.

How are you going to ensure they have access to the Internet/phone to maintain their social relationships, pay for things like travel and snacks, and to apply for courses/volunteering without them being on Tiktok and buying things you don't approve of? I'm not being sarcastic.

It is a real conundrum for me!

Have a family computer they can use in the evenings, give them a brick phone and refuse to pay for a smart phone, turn the wifi off in the day, make some things like allowances based on behaviour like not being in your room all day. You are right, you cant make an adult do anything. But you can stop all the ways you are enabling them to live in a harmful way.

So they are paying for things travelling around with cash or a debit card? If the train's cancelled they use their initiative or ask someone?

How do you prevent them using friends' devices?

What if you need the Internet to work yourself at home?

I tried the brick phone. DD was the only one with one (I mean I commute with her - I was in full sight of the multiple other teenagers with smartphones).

I prefer to let her have the tech and keep talking to her so it's not forbidden and therefore attractive. And DH and I want to know roughly where she is and what she's spending.

Anyway sorry OP, different situation!

In the last few days I’ve been asking dd what research into uni courses she has done. And unlike previously I am continuing to question her if she ignores. She said she hasn’t done any and when I asked why she said ‘because you’re not being nice to me’. I must admit this initially sent me into a mild panic, my feelings of oh God I’ve got to be a certain way, maybe should go back to the gentle approach, I’ll make it worse etc etc. But this feeling passed pretty quickly and then I thought hold on, the ‘nice’ approach hasn’t worked in 2.5 years, and secondly if someone really wants to go to university, someone else being ‘nice’ or otherwise should not affect that. I’m going to tell her this.

No but why is it appropriate to enable her to do absolutely fuck all while paying for it? No one makes me go to work. But I want my nice house and my nice fun things I do at the weekend so I drag myself out of bed and go. I know loads of people on here love their jobs. I am not one of them. If someone gave me free accommodation and free money to do fuck all I would absolutely take it.

I dropped out of college at 16. Didn’t know what do. Wasn’t coping. My mum said not to worry. It isn’t for everyone. But. You need to get a job if you want money. So I had to get a job. I got a minimum wage job for I think it was £3.25 an hour or something (in the 90s) two days a week. But it was something. So my mum did give me a bit of extra for a while. But she then said it was stopping and I needed to work more if I wanted more money. I was 19 and got a full time job. Still minimum wage at first. I was diagnosed as autistic in my 30s. I now have a well paying job (which I really don’t like). But yet I still drag myself out to do it every day because I want the nice things it pays for.

Say breezing, "time to find some nicer people then DD!"

@Smoosha you sound like you were way more mature at 16 than this young lady is at 19 unfortunately!

I had/have very generous parents. I never felt any urge to laze about. I wanted to get a degree, a job etc.

I do enjoy my job even allowing for the annoying and tiring aspects. It's worth at least aiming at that I think but I totally respect your stance.

It sounds like she is aware that she has power over you, and if you don't do what she wants she will intentionally self sabotage to punish you.

Tbf I don't think researching Unis is the first step. I think you should focus on smaller things, like getting her to have some small responsibilities around the house. A chore e.g hoovering once a wek, and if she doesn't do this she doesn't get her monthly allowance. That way if she chooses not to do it 'as you are not being nice' you can shrug and ignore, and then she has the consequences of her actions by having no money.

And, I think that is exactly what will happen the first month. Say if you say: OK DD, from May onwards you will only get your money if you do X job. It's up to you if you do it.
I imagine she won't do it, then will have a big reaction to not getting her May money. You can shrug, say: we have discussed this and if you want money you know what to do. Anyway, let's not argue about it, would you like a cup of tea?

She needs to start the process of learning how to get up and do something she doesn't feel liek doing, for a defined reward.
'researching unis' doesn't have any refined reward, and even if she researched them, you have no control over her applying and then going etc. Start small: you need to do this in order to get this, then slowly build up to Uni.

@Terfymcnamechange I agree that I don’t think dd is ready for uni yet. But the message I want to convey to her is that if someone wants something, they are responsible for making it happen and not blame others if they don’t.

How we move forward with the money needs some thinking about. Others have suggested that we stop the allowance or taper it down over time. To me, dd doing a small weekly chore for her money doesn’t feel like enough. I’m not sure though, maybe we should start small.

Thete are lots if ways you could apprach it. But whatever you choose, why don't you decide that April is the last month she gets the full amount if money for doing nothing. Otherwise you will still be in the same situation in September, then Sept 2027 etc

You could say, Ok then, if you haven't managed to research Unis then we need to try a different approach. We will give you half the allowance in May and June then from July we are stopping the allowance. We can look at starting it again once you have made progress towards your next steps.

Do you think I could point out to her that no one gets anywhere by sitting around feeling sorry for themselves?

I recently met a young woman through work whose story I was so impressed with. She grew up in the care system and at 16 ish was living in various hostels with minimal support. She is now 23, has an undergraduate degree and a masters and a job with the charity that supported her. I see all sorts through my work, some kids have a really difficult start in life. And my dd has every opportunity with loving supportive parents. Makes my blood boil really.

No please don’t do that. I think that would be incendiary and counterproductive. It’s one thing you knowing that and it giving you the strength to keep going with boundary-setting, quite another to make a direct comparison directly to your daughter. I don’t believe that would motivate her but instead lead to another pointless debate.

Just know that it is entirely possible for your daughter to emerge from her funk and become a productive and happy person - allow this young woman’s story to keep you on track.

You could try, but I suspect it would end up with her storming out or saying you are 'being mean' to her. I think you are hoping you can appeal to her better nature and motivate her that way, so you can avoid the inevitable conflict that will come with setting firmer boundaries.

But you've been avoiding conflict and talking about more vulnerable people at your work for 2.5 years, and are no further along.

What is stopping you cutting her allowance today? You could tell her right now, why aren't you? What worries you about doing it?

Also perhaps your DD's loving, supportive parents have been a touch too loving and supportive and that's where the problem lies.

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You could pay her for each course she completes on e.g. Open Learn, in lieu of the allowance?

You could also look at WRVS Home Library Service or Community Champions. They pair volunteers up. Offer an incentive payment when she's done the training or a month of volunteering.

Basically pay the allowance but tie it to achievable things.

I think applying to university without A-levels is too daunting.

Side benefit - she'd meet people actually stuck at home. She could always describe herself as being on a gap year.

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I think checking in about the uni stuff is still interfering and you need to be more radically putting responsibility back on her and being less involved in her life.

She is an adult and you cannot make her do anything you can only change your own behaviour and change the contingencies for her. Make it more uncomfortable to maintain the status quo.

If you let her make choices you have to be OK with them being not the ones you would choose. She might choose to suffer with no money at first. Being withdrawn and angry and even suicide threats might possibly happen. I would ignore those. Not every suicidal thought has the same meaning.

I really would change the allowance and the wi fi and maybe the phone contract as these are the major levers you have. If she didn’t have money and free wi fi then she would have to do something to get money a things she wants. Like I said I have put my money where my mouth is on this with my own DD and it was effective (She is NT as far as I know; she had some weird sensory issues as a child and is very shy though so who knows maybe I could have got her diagnosed).

Honestly I would
stop answering messages at work apart from emergencies
stop commenting on any inappropriate Tik Tok content (you can still like an animal video)
stop agreeing to keep secrets from DH
inform her that her allowance is tapering down and stopping by September unless she is on a course or volunteering or working x hours a week by then
switch off the wi fi at midnight and when you are at work unless she is going to evidence that she is using it for work search purposes.
in all of this you do still love and care for her and you can show her that by getting her little things she likes spontaneously, sharing videos she’d be interested in or offering a theatre or shopping trip. You maintain baseline kindness whatever but you don’t respond to bad behaviour and manipulation. Any stropping off etc just gets ignored and you tell her how much you appreciate it when she does do nice stuff.
You love her you don’t like her current behaviour and you want it to change for her own sake. Ultimately at this age it is up to her if she wants to make changes.

What is stopping you cutting her allowance today? You could tell her right now, why aren't you? What worries you about doing it?

@Terfymcnamechange because her autism means she doesn’t cope well with sudden changes. And this is big change.

Did you not suggest above that we keep the allowance as long as chores are done?

I think tying the allowance to doing stuff is a good idea. Some could be for chores at home and some for stuff like courses or volunteering.
If she chooses not to do it then fine you don’t get annoyed or apply any pressure the natural consequence just follows of not having any money.
I would lay it out at the start and then not discuss it much more. Maybe just a prompt ‘just to remind you that your allowance is halving from x date. If you don’t want that to happen then you know what to do. If you want any help with job or course applications I’ll happily help you.’
Dare one ask how much it actually is? If it’s very generous then maybe minimum wage jobs just don’t look very attractive in comparison.

Yes but you said you thought that was too small