Dd, autism and cake - Thread 2

[bendmeoverbackwards]

I had no idea that my first thread would fill up and I am in awe and overwhelmed at the amount of support.

I am going to re-read all the responses and make a plan. Thank you, this has been eye opening.

I did pretty much exactly this with my (admittedly NT) DD when she was doing nothing at all on a gap year with no plans for her future.

I warned her and then I sent her an email saying that I pay the allowance to support her whilst she is making progress for her future but I will not finance anyone doing nothing so it will stop in 3 months. I would continue it if she enrolled on a course or got a paid or voluntary job for more than 20h a week.

Within the 3 months she got a job and enrolled on a course and she’s now applied for uni. She was wallowing in misery having not done as well as she’d hoped at A level (also predictable due to hardly revising) and she needed a kick up the arse. I was scared that if I let her she would have just made no decision and stayed at home reliant on us and I did not want that for her. Plus I was irritated by working my arse off in a hard job and then tidying up after everyone all evening and weekend whilst another capable adult was doing nothing except making a mess.

I don’t know how she felt about it as she is more like your DD1 and unlikely to tell me but I expect she was angry and probably told all her friends what cow I am. I was prepared to take that as I know it’s not true.

I feel for you.

DH and I saw a marriage guidance counsellor when our DD was around 7 or 8 and he said after a few sessions "do you realise you've only talked about your daughter, not your relationship"?!

It's very hard when you live with a dominant, challenging personality.

I think you must try not to get drawn into "yes but" discussions about the allowance. Decide with DH what you'll do and keep repeating it like a broken record.

I like @AintNoPartyLikeANumber10Party 's approach.

And you do have to be prepared to be treated as the bad guy.

@AintNoPartyLikeANumber10Party thank you. Can I ask - because I’m pretty sure dd’s response will be that she ‘can’t’ do any of those things ie job or studying - what should I say to this?

For me this is where you need to get tougher. I suggest you refuse to accept this from her. I refer you back to my post about your daughter’s privilege. I know several young adults with difficult social backgrounds and some with significant mental challenges who are studying/working. It is perfectly possible for your daughter to do something productive.

Say “And why not? Given that you maintain you’re not ND, what’s the problem? Your self diagnosed “trauma”?”

And then listen very very hard to what she says.

It will all be about

• it’s your fault
• its not fair
• thats not what I want to do
• diversion/distraction/meltdown.

You say that you cannot continue to accept that she “ can’t”. That “can’t” is not a lifestyle choice. That many people have had to overcome physical & mental challenges to progress & that they do it everyday.

And that you loving her is actually not accepting “can’t”, because doing so will actually hold her back. You can longer make her life comfortable.

And you also say that you are a person as well as her mother, and her sisters are people & the family dynamic cannot be the DD3 show because that isn’t fair on anyone.

And if she tries to repeat you’ve done X or Y like the frankly absolute nonsense about the birthday cake you end the conversation by firmly saying this has been discussed & I’m not going there again I have my own mental health to think of.

Thank you all, this is SO helpful. As you can see I’m exhausted with it all to the point that I cant find the right words.

They say trust your instincts - and even before I started this thread, the idea of toughening up gave me a good positive feeling. So that must tell me it’s the right thing to do.

Im on various MH support groups and read about all sorts. But there is a huge difference between my dd and someone who is so depressed they can barely get out of bed.

Another question if I may (playing devils advocate here). And this sounds like an excuse not to put these suggestions in place - it’s not. On one course I did the thinking was to build a really strong relationship with your child and by doing so and creating emotional safety for them, that alone will enable them in time to take steps forward. Thoughts? Dh thinks this is codswallop BTW.

Secondly - dd has said that she ‘only’ has me (ie in her life currently). She will view my toughening up and see it as rejection. I’m scared it will break her.

1. Yep, codswallop. Look where it’s got you so far.

2. Scared it will break her? What does that mean? Currently she’s broken anyway.

You need to say to her “I’m not rejecting you. I am rejecting your behavior.”

You can say "DH and I want the best for you because we love you. We love you and want you to have a life outside the house. You have lots of gifts and talents. We want you to use them."

I know what those groups meant about seeking connection not correction, but you and DH can see the bigger picture here. She can't. She needs you to be tough.

What happens if DH talks to her/with her? Which of you is she more like in personality? What would happen if you went away for a bit, somewhere without much phone reception?

Have you ever done an assertiveness course? I did once. It gave a lot of useful things to say and different scenarios to practice.

Is there anything you can visualise that would help you? How she could potentially be in 5 years - steps towards that.

Sorry for all the questions. Don't feel you need to answer them.

@Teenthree by broken I mean she might because more depressed and unhappy than she is now/suicidal.

Oh OP! Thats a recurring theme in your posts - a fear of suicide. I’m so sorry, that must be very difficult to deal with - but feelings are not reality and I get the impression that THIS is the nub of it - that ultimately you’re terrified of losing her in that way, however vanishingly rare it is in young people of her situation and profile. It’s that fear that stops you implementing anything because what else can trump “yes but what if it kills her?”

I'm a teacher (14-18) and I've got a really difficult student in one of my classes at the moment. Not the same kind of issues as DD, but some of your reported conversations with her certainly remind me of some dead ends I've got into with students over the years. Anyway, I was searching my well thumbed collection of resources and remembered Sue Cowley. You might find helpful language in here. Some of it will be irrelevant outside class situations but you may find "getting articulate stroppy person to do something for their own good" is a pretty universal thing. Anyway, it's £1.99 so could be worth a browse.
amzn.eu/d/0gd6xuAw

You are talking nonsense. Read the thread. The daughter is the abuser not the mother and being ND does not legitimise that abuse

Also DD went through a phase of grabbing knives out of the kitchen drawer and threatening to use them so I get that fear.

She is actually a lot better 5 years later. She still storms off but not at a pace we can't catch her up (!), has stopped hitting us and the knife thing was fortunately of short duration.

She has SUCH strong feelings.

Ordering this now. One of mine is PDA and I feel like Kofi Annan a lot of the time. It’s like negotiating with a terrorist.

A strong relationship has strong boundaries. A strong relationship means you can say no. A strong relationship is one in which you can tell the truth.

so it’s not codswallap - it’s just (sorry) that you’re doing it wrong. Be honest with your daughter - she is able to do more with her life so because you love her, you will no longer enable her to do nothing.

I’m not sure why you think your much loved child will be ‘broken’ by you setting healthy expectations… was she broken by potty training? By learning to say please and thank you? By hearing the word no?
Her own Tik Tok fuelled estimation of her mental health is not a diagnosis.

My daughter has an ASD / PDA diagnosis. She tells no one about it. Her place of work doesn't know for starters.

People know she is quirky and has some strange likes and dislikes. She is high functioning and good at masking.

Your daughter is not restricted by her diagnosis. Most employers do not request to see medical records. Unless she wants to eg join the army, it's not an issue.

I actually read interviews with hostage negotiators with a lot of interest 😂.

Thing is, as a rule, terrorists have a clear agenda. My PDA’er doesn’t. It’s literally synapse by synapse.

I would say that I am confident she will find a way. I would say that in the past I have taken over and tried to solve problems for you and this has not helped so now I am taking a step back but if you come to me for help with a plan of your own I will gladly help you.

I agree you seem very scared of suicide. Thoughts are common, self harm is common, serious attempts and completed suicide is very rare. Maybe you have a personal reason to be so afraid of this outcome but it really really is very unlikely.

She is likely to get distressed and kick back at boundaries and she may even say that she feels suicidal but that is a sanctioned expression of distress in our culture especially for Gen Z. It’s a long way from being likely to act.

The suicide threat would function for her if it keeps you from taking any action. If she says anything like that it’s best to validate the feeling ‘I really am sorry that you are so upset. I do love you but I don’t think changing our decision is the right thing to do.’

You being her ‘only person’ is also a very maladaptive thing I’m afraid. It can’t be good for either of you to have your happiness so dependent on one another. It’s time to be separate from your mum at 19. She should be having friends and relationships and stuff you don’t know about by now. Presumably your relationship with your older DDs isn’t like this so know it’s not right. If she isn’t separating from you in a normal way then you need to give it a helping hand by stepping back just a little yourself.

Would it help you to role play some of the conversations in advance with dh or counsellor.
Practice your words so you are calm and confident.
So you say we will be stopping allowance in 2 months. She says you paid dc1 and 2 until 21. You say that’s because they were students. She says it’s your fault I’m not a student. You are entitled to your view but we are stopping allowance on x date. We’ll reintroduce allowance once you are studying or volunteering 3 days a week. I can’t. Ok that’s your choice. If you want me to help you book a counselling appointment/Gp appointment/welfare benefit appointment to look at what benefits you may get if you can’t work then let me know.
Keep reiterating you love her but situation can’t carry on.

I really like @Shrinkhole’s wording of positive steps for your future.
The irritated by working ft when there’s another adult doing nothing is something I very much agree with. I’ve said exactly that to my dd when she was 18 - I’m not going to work ft all summer and you laze around when she was moaning about her pt job.