Dd, autism and cake - Thread 2

[bendmeoverbackwards]

I had no idea that my first thread would fill up and I am in awe and overwhelmed at the amount of support.

I am going to re-read all the responses and make a plan. Thank you, this has been eye opening.

I think OP needs to force DD3 to see her as a person not just her mother.

Everything is about her.

And OP you know how to do this, as you’ve said you raised DD1 & DD2, and you change your attitude to DD3 needing to use the kitchen & you don’t let it bother you.

Take those learnings to this and hold firm in a kind tone.

Her mentality seems to be she can’t do X, because of a diagnosis, or because she hasn’t grown up properly therefore she hadn’t grown up at all. Much like the cakes being backwards, it’s a mentality not a fact. She is choosing to see things a certain way.

Do this for her, but also for it for you, you deserve more peace than this. And this will carry on & you’ll be looking at your DD3 in your kitchen telling you all the ways you messed up her life when you are 85 if you don’t do something.

I don’t think I’ve read anything on this thread about what DD3 is expecting to happen going forward. What does she see as her future, what does she want to do with the next 60 years in this planet?

Or is she just intending to rot in her parents room living miserably in the moment and complaining about perceived trauma from being misled as to meeting purpose many years ago?

I keep coming back to Cold Comfort Farm dynamics. I would read that book if you haven’t Op. yes of course it is fictional and pre internet etc but really it seems the same dynamic and the ideal way out of this would be for her to be inspired to have a positive plan for the future she wants to move towards.

(but failing that you’ll need to force it)

@PinkPhonyClub I think from previous thread the DD wants to go to a ‘good’ university.
She has pass GCSEs but no A levels (didn’t get place at her school 6th form due to her GCSEs grades and dropped out of private school sixth form after a day or two)
There are obviously alternatives like an access to higher education diploma but reading between lines the DD thinks that’s beneath her and wants to go somewhere prestigious not an ex poly type of university that is likely to accept an access diploma or offer a foundation year.
So has been stuck in state of not doing anything for 2.5 years.
How to move on when the dd won’t engage is the million dollar question.
Op could book an appointment at a local college to discuss options but will the dd go. There’s online options too but would need her to engage.
Not sure what area of study she is interested in but would offer of funding a masters appease her at all?
I’m just thinking if siblings have been to prestigious universities she may think going to a lower ranked institution is embarrassing or a failure. It’s how to convey that doing something is better than bed rotting for 2.5 years.
She could be at local college from September on access course, then uni 2027. It may not be her dream uni or how she envisioned things but all positive steps for future.
I had a manager who used to say we are where we are. I think that type of approach calm and consistent when the dd raises the past wrongs. We are where we are that ship has sailed let’s focus on future and what is possible.
Expecting her to be enrolled on a course or working or volunteering x days a week by September seems a sensible goal.
Op would be able to get info from local college to pass on. If she’s enrolled I’d pay her allowance.
Would she go to any uni open days with you this summer? Just thinking if she saw what was within her reach it may spur her on. I have really positive memories of open days with dd, staying in hotel sometimes, quality 1-1 time. May perhaps make her feel less like missed out (assuming op went to uni open days with dc 1 and 2)

Prestigious unis do accept students on access courses. Even Oxbridge accept an Access to HE Diploma for arts courses. The world is still here oyster if she is motivated to try.

https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/foundation-year

I was about to signpost something similar for Oxford. There are so many more opportunities out there than before. OP's DD can still accomplish her goals, but she needs to take concrete action, not sit at home complaining and expecting the whole household to revolve around her. I say this as someone who burnt out during A Levels.

Definitely worth the dd exploring @Shrinkhole and good info for Op to share if dd starts with the ruined my chances.
I suspect it may be tricky for her to prove eligibility for some schemes, the Cambridge one needs criteria in a couple of categories which I think she would struggle to meet eligibility for.

Would she go to any uni open days with you this summer?

@Hellometime ahhh the uni open days. We went to some 2 years ago, at DD’s request, when she ‘should’ have been in year 12. She wanted to go but was extremely anxious (we didn’t leave home till late because she wasn’t ready, at one she didn’t get out the car for ages because she was cold). I thought by seeing some unis it would inspire her. But after the 4th or 5th one we realised that we were just playing along with her fantasy that all was going ok when in reality she hadn’t started A levels or equivalent yet.

Just wanted to add something else and I think this is the reason why we haven’t forced things up till now - I’ve always parented in a way that allows nature to take its course. For example - I took my babies into bed to feed despite warnings of ‘making a rod for your own back’. Because I knew that by making them safe and secure they would outgrow it in their own time. Which they did.

There were particular issues with dd1 and dd2 when they were younger - with dd1 it was a severe dental phobia, with dd2 it was a very restrictive diet (ARFID). In both cases I worried for years, took them both to various specialists, nothing worked. In both cases time helped. Dd1 eventually wanted to get her teeth straightened which spurred her to deal with the phobia. Dd2’s eating gradually got better and peer pressure at university helped. She eats all sorts now. I remember asking my friend’s mum for advice about dd2’s eating, she just shrugged her shoulders, told me to relax, give her foods she would eat and she’d outgrow it.

So I suppose I’ve been applying the same logic to dd3, that time and maturity will help, even if painfully slow. But I suppose this is a different situation.

Exactly. She has so many opportunities open to her. Don’t think it needs to be Oxbridge but a decent Russell Group uni. Funnily enough, my friend’s dd has a place at Cambridge after doing a foundation year at Essex university.

I hear you… but I don’t believe you only have only one method of parenting. Those are two very specific examples but what about potty training? Did you just wait until your girls magically did it themselves or did you support the process? And did your girls just take themselves to school one day fully dressed in uniform - or did you actually take them and later tell them to go?

Your DD3 does not benefit from this laissez faire attitude- it’s highly destructive. She’s achieved nothing in over 2 years. Maybe if you wait long enough she will find a way … maybe not… it’s a big risk - are you really going to gamble her future on perpetuating this philosophy?

I agree with you that many things do pass with development in young kids. DD had food allergies and was a very tiny failing to thrive baby and I worried about that futilely for years but she grew out of the CMPA allergy and learnt to manage the others and now eats normally and is a normal weight.

OTOH I think that applies less the older you get as capacity for natural change reduces. She isn’t progressing in a way you would naturally expect at her age ie separating from you and wanting independence. There are quite a lot of neurodivergent people dependent on parents until they pass away who never naturally developed a motivation to set up on their own.

There is a danger that adults just fall into a pattern and carry on with it when there is no incentive to change. In particular avoidance is known to be a powerful maintaining factor in anxiety disorders. If feared activities are avoided they just become more scary and the persons world gets smaller. Lots of people will say they want something (uni) but then take no practical steps to achieve it because the short term pain is too scary to change and the status quo is comfortable. You need to change the risk reward balance for change to happen.

Also the status quo seems horrible for you and the rest of the family. Her behaviour actively makes you all unhappy not only herself so it’s not like it’s a reasonable option for the rest of you to just wait for her to possibly at some stage grow out of it. If you do choose the waiting it out option I’d argue you still need to have ground rules on behaviour at home so that everyone else can live their lives you included.

I do wonder if you need to let go of your own high expectations of her a bit? Subconsciously might this be exerting pressure on her? If you made it clear (and really meant it) that you would still love her and be proud of her if she didn’t go to uni as long as she had some kind of work or study that was meaningful would that help?

I’m sorry if I’ve misunderstood what I’ve read but the mention of Oxbridge/Russell group unis/plenty of opportunities open to her has me stunned when right now the foundations of living a good day aren’t even place for your daughter. I’d be forgetting all about uni etc for the time being and concentrating on getting her to learn how to get through a day (and live with people).

Whoa hang on. She didn’t get out of the car for ages because she was cold? WTF???

The way she will lead you all on is amazing. I’m so glad you’ve stopped visiting universities and seen it for the fantasy it is. I’m interested to hear how she reacted to that?

Thank you @Shrinkhole I needed to hear that.

I honestly don’t care a jot about uni. I would be overjoyed if she got (and kept) a job in Tescos. The pressure isn’t coming from me. Dd2 is very academic and went to Bristol, dd1 is less academic and did a dance degree. I am pleased they pursued what was right for them (dd1 had a place to do English at Birmingham; she had a change of heart and Im pleased because it wasn’t right for her). Whether she’ll make it as a professional dancer remains to be seen but she’s working hard at 2 jobs in the meantime. Dh and I really value work ethic.

I do think the wait for her to grow out of it ship has sailed. 2.5 years doing nothing.
Theres a current thread on AIBU about adults living with parents long term and I do think there’s a real risk 2.5 years will stretch to 5 and then 10.
I personally think some routine and tasks would do her the world of good. Walk outside with you before work, tasks around home like painting your garden fence. Busy work but something she could feel a little pride in.
How to achieve that though when it sounds like she’d just refuse or procrastinate.
I think drawing a line and setting out expectations in writing going forward is a good start and holding her to that. The we all need to contribute to living here, I’m not working and you laze about all day approach.
You must be so worried but I think you are currently on the enabling side and need to shift to supporting but not enabling. There’s a lot of anger from siblings on the adults aibu thread I’ve mentioned for how parents have pandered to the failure to launch sibling.

@Hellometime I have tried many times to get her to do small things as you suggest. I often suggest a walk, she refuses. At her request I signed her up at a local gym - she didn’t go. How can I do this if she just refuses?

I think it loops back to the all actions or inactions have consequences.
It’s hard as you have gone along with her doing absolutely nothing but you can’t undo past only focus on future.
So set out expectations for future in writing.
Expectation is everyone participates in family life and contributes.
Reduce allowance from x date to a small amount.
We’ll pay your phone contract and £40 a month but in return we expect you to do these chores and cook an evening meal twice a week or whatever. If she doesn’t keep her side of the agreement then you don’t keep yours, phone suddenly cut off will make a big impression.
Personally I would be irritated by an adult just lazing around and verbally challenge. This perhaps ties in to another poster suggesting she doesn’t see you as a person. But spelling out I’ve worked for 8 hours in a demanding role, commuted an hour and now I’m cooking my meal while you have done nothing.
Walking her up at 8am daily. What are you doing today? Each evening what have you done? Rinse and repeat. You can’t force her but you can express disappointment she’s not contributing and act accordingly, actions have consequences so no phone or allowance, don’t bend over backwards to assist her with lifts or whatever.

Thank you @Hellometime In the past I have used WiFi as a bargaining chip ie if she doesn’t do what is asked, her WiFi will go off until it’s done. We didn’t do it consistently though. And then I had worries that lack of WiFi meant she can’t keep in touch with the few friends that she has.

I think consistency will be key and united front. We love you and this current situation isn’t good for you. We are doing it from a place of love and support not being mean.
Does she have hobbies?

Not being able to keep in touch would be a logical consequence for her behaviour. We all have to experience some discomfort when learning new skills or pushing ourselves out of our comfort zone. It is ok to hold some small boundaries.

Very true and for a typical teen/young adult I wouldn’t hesitate to make them uncomfortable when necessary. But because her life is so small, very few friends, I’ve been wary of being obstructive in planning any potential social events.

Im not making excuses BTW or won’t change things, Im just explaining my previous thinking.

Why don't you turn the wifi off (or change the password so she can't access it) during the day (9-5) and then thrn it off at 11pm. Then she can't still message her friends but she has to find something else to do for the majority of the time

What would she say if you had a conversation about her situation? I feel like the changes need to come from her, could she do one thing per day to work towards her goals/a more independent life and get her to agree what the consequences would be if she didn’t keep it up.

Would she be motivated at all by helping others?
I remember my husband doing a mile a day in May for a charity. That would give some structure and fresh air.
I’m assuming no hobbies now. What did she like when younger? Eg brownies in village needs another leader or will close - how would she react to showing her something like that and saying you loved brownies it says they’ll help you get your leader qualification. I think you said she likes animals, so maybe something animal related.