Am I being selfish?

[Sophie26940]

Is it selfish to fly long haul with 2 year old? I’m so embarrassed I got shouted at on the plane by two men for my son shouting during dinner and banging forks. They said they want their money back, they tried to move seats, what was I thinking bringing child on the plane, I’m selfish, why is it crying etc. I understand why they’re annoyed but my child wasn’t crying much, just upset in his sleep. The staff were horrible to me so I had no support. Is it deemed selfish to bring a child on a 12 hour night flight? Dreading the flight back now.

Well, it’s all relative. The people who can only afford to fly economy will have paid a sizeable amount of their budget for the flight. Being rich shouldn’t get you special treatment in regards to things like this. And there’s no reason why children and their parents should expect to be excluded from spaces just because they cost more.

So you're ok with the quiet space being turned in to the noisy space by a selfish parent?

I never would have taken my children when they were young on long haul, purely from a stress perspective, for me, for them and the other passengers.

Having flown from the US to UK on the 'red eye' a few years ago, I had a woman directly in front of me, holding a baby, who was clearly distressed with the changing cabin pressure and noise etc. Literally 8 hours of her shouting (I kid you not) at the baby 'what do you want' whilst rocking him in the seat within an inch of it's life, to the extent the back of her seat actually hit my forehead a few times. The mother of the mum trying to soothe the baby all the way up and down the aisle so everyone could experience the sound of that poor baby (as if they couldn't hear it before)😫.

Cabin crew did nothing other than shoot dirty looks at them, as we all were.

They carried on like they were the only ones on the plane and no-one else mattered, other than the mum who couldn't deal with any of it in a rational manner.

I think that was possibly the last time I flew long haul and I probably never will again, unless they introduce adult only flights.

If needs are a must then yeah I get it, but otherwise it is totally unreasonable.

Yes, and parents are people who paid to use that space too. So they still have just as much right to be there.

1st class? Like British Airways 1st class, higher than Business class? They still shouldn’t have shouted at you, but if you had taken a 2 year old in a class where the tickets cost many thousands of pounds then I can see why they were annoyed. But still shouldn’t have spoken to you rudely

Yeah taking a young child first class on a long haul flight would piss me right off sorry. But if the airline allow it then it is what it is!

Having flown a couple of times when my toddler screamed for the entire flight, I paused flying for a few years. Flying with babies and toddlers is grim for everyone.

They don't have the right to disturb other people though.

I flew long haul with my 18 month and three year old, on the whole they were really good. If there was any moments I did my best to get them sorted as quick as possible. There was one women who before we had even taken off, looked at my kids who were silently sat colouring and said ‘oh for fucksake going to be a shit flight with those’. The air hostess actually asked her to watch her language, and everyone around me was really kind. One man actually at the end of the flight called her out on her comment and said she shouldn’t be quick to judge next time.

we all pay the same money so f them, as others have said if you were just letting them him go mad not even attempting to do anything that’s different but if you were trying than f them. You have as much right as anyone else, we’ve all seen badly behaved/drunk adults on planes before!

When you pay extra to fly first or business, you are paying for the seating, the service, the extras etc. It doesn't entitle you to be seated solely with other passengers that are to your personal liking. Choosing the people around you isn't part of the package you pay for.

The impact of a yelling toddler in First is exactly the same as the impact of a yelling toddler in Economy.

They have the right to use the space. And part of sharing a space with infants is occasional noise. It’s part of life, because children are part of life.
The grown men making a fuss, and swearing though? That is not something we should reasonably have to expect. Their disturbance was the real issue here.

I don't see why you would if it's just for a holiday. But if it was an essential trip/emergency then it can't be helped.

I just think it's hard enough for an adult to feel reasonable on those flights, so it seems a lot of unnecessary stress on a very small child.

Whether you were unreasonable or not depends on what you were doing to quieten your toddler down. The fact you haven’t shared that, and the fact you say the cabin crew were awful to you, makes me think you did fuck all. In which case you were UR and selfish. Extra so for being in 1st class.

Were you travelling for a holiday or necessity? If a holiday, I’d also say that was selfish. It was about what you wanted, not what was best for your child.

From @Sophie26940 refusal to answer any questions about what her child was doing or what she did to stop them (I’m guessing sweet FA) AND the detail the cabin crew were unimpressed I heavily suspect she was the one at fault and the behaviour was both unchecked and appalling.

I really wish child free flights existed, I'd pay extra!

I suspect the other people in first class really thought they had done and therein lay the problem...

agreed

Although that doesn't excuse the men of swearing and shouting. If that is what they did

no, nobody expects to have a nice time in economy. First class is what people who are dying might pay to do as a once in a lifetime thing. Just as children aren't allowed in a lot of restaurants but are allowed in pizza express.

You should have immediately taken the fork off him... I'm not getting the impression you did that.

I'd be annoyed if there was a child making so much noise and I paid thousands for a ticket.

The bigger issue with kids making noise, kicking the back of people's seats is the parents not attempting to quiet them down or stop them.. and they say "that's kids for you"

Overseas family so a lot of long haul, in economy. Always fine. That said, I had loads of activities planned. Can’t say I enjoyed it.

Exactly.
I suspect he was shouting, banging forks and crying.

With the OP not doing anything about the banging forks or shouting. I know you can't do anything about the crying.

Sophie26940
I was posting to see if it’s socially acceptable to take a child long haul as I can see both sides of the argument.

Based on what I did when my DC were very young, I'd say no unless there was a very pressing reason.
I'd have found it very stressful, my 1st DC was a terrible sleeper so would have annoyed everyone else and my babies/toddlers wouldn't have cared if they were somewhere exotic or not so it would have been of no benefit to them.
It was only a few years before they were civilised enough to travel long haul and we saw a lot more of the UK during those few years which we really enjoyed.

If you are spending thousands of pounds on tickets for first class and are sensitive to noise, you should have the sense to invest some of your healthy income in a pair of noise cancelling headphones.

And yes, people in economy have no more and no less right to comfort and enjoyment of the flight they have purchased than those in first class - they pay for one set of facilities, first class pay for another. If there are airlines where first class is child free, it's wrong to violate that.

That's not what happened here and you are not remotely in the wrong over the crying, OP. As for banging his fork - I'm struggling to imagine that was terribly loud and it obviously wasn't at a time when people would be sleeping. But if it went on a bit and was bothering them, they'd have been justified in asking you politely if you could stop him.

Hope you get less unpleasant and dramatic types on the way home. It's the luck of the draw. Have a word with the stewards and stewardesses on the way in maybe and tell them he's mostly good on flights, you'll do your best to keep him calm and peaceful, and to please let you know if there's anything they would recommend. Get them on side but don't look for anyone's approval. You're doing nothing wrong.

From your lack of response to questions it seems like you let your child be disruptive and noisy. I would sympathise with anyone who found that irritating. Hopefully this was not the case.

I think most people have no issues with babies and toddlers on planes, young children can have their moments but as long as parents are responsible then there is no problem.

a bit, your child was banging forks & shouting, my idea of hell. Should be a rule children under a certain age shouldnt be allowed to do long haul flights.

The staff were horrible to me

Absolute bollocks!

1. There is absolutely no way all (or any) of the crew - especially in first - were “horrible” to you; curt, lacking effort or off with you maybe but there’s no way they were “horrible” which makes me question that these men were even “shouting”
2. If the staff were curt or off with you then I’d imagine you were part of the problem