To think we are in a relationship?

[Beingabout]

We are in our late 30s. We’ve been friends since we were teenagers. We had several casual flings with each other throughout our 20s. About six years ago we started seeing each other more often, but he didn’t want a relationship.

Five years ago I met someone else, and given the stance of not wanting a relationship, I went out with him and ended up in a relationship with him. I gave the first man every opportunity to stop it but he didn’t. Anyway, we broke up after a few months and the first man and I ended up back in touch. I made it clear at this point that I was only interested in being back in touch if we weren’t going to be seeing anyone else, which he agreed to.

Since then we’ve become closer and closer. I trust that he’s not, and is not interested in, seeing anyone else. He's supportive and caring (which it’s fair to say he wasn’t in our 20s). He’s thoughtful and kind. We go on holiday together and exchange Christmas and birthday presents. I have started to refer to him as my boyfriend, which he knows about and doesn’t seem bothered about.

He woukd still say we’re not in a relationship. I can’t see how this isn’t a relationship?

He sounds like a 15 year old boy. How is this attractive?

I’m now convinced you’re posting to wind everyone up - if you are truly happy and content - why are you asking! Then to argue with everyone who says otherwise. Bizarre. Hopefully he isn’t stringing you along while waiting for a partner who he won’t mind calling his GF - because he’s certainly not calling you his partner/gf but you don’t see to see this. In the meantime - you seem happy so not sure what the point of this thread is.

why ask a question if you don’t want to hear the truth . You are not in a relationship that takes two people and he does not agree .
A relationship unreturned is not a relationship.

Fucking hell, I've repeated numerous times that I was just pondering it. This is a chat forum.

Okay. But other than the label, what is the difference?

He doesn’t want the label of relationship, he doesn’t want to be in a relationship with you OP. That is the difference. That prevents it from being a relationship. You are free to pretend that it is a relationship, but in reality it isn’t.

Well my conclusion is that you are in a relationship. It's not like there's some specific definition of "relationship" that you don't fit.

You and he both seem happy with your situation in practical terms, you broadly agree on what you want from the future together.

But on a deeper emotional level there is a mismatch and the question is how deep does that go.

• You would "prefer" him to acknowledge it's a relationship even though it wouldn't change anything in practical terms. Presumably it would change something emotionally for you though, like give you some reassurance about his feelings or intentions? How much will it niggle away and cause unhappiness to you if he continues indefinitely saying you're not in a relationship?

• He doesn't want to be in a relationship because...he doesn't want to be in a relationship. That's so opaque. What is it about being in a labelled "relationship" that he dislikes so much? Is it something to do with feeling a lack of personal freedom, and if so is it in terms of monogamy, or factoring someone else into life decisions, or money, or compromising over stuff, or living up to expectations, or does he want to be able to keep his options open to move on without guilt if he finds someone he prefers?

To be honest I don't think I could be with this guy if I didn't know precisely why he didn't want to be a "in a relationship" and decide whether I was OK with that reason or not.

I know people who have romantic partners but don't want certain levels of commitment (which I guess you could term a relationship), but the key thing is they're able to articulate why and what their boundaries are, so everyone knows where they stand. I think he owes you that.

You want to know if this amounts to a relationship but I guess it depends on what that means to you and to him. To you the situation amounts to relationship but it seems not to mean that to your friend/BF/partner. And I think that’s the thing to get to the bottom of. You seem to be saying it’s a relationship but he just doesn’t want to use the word and if that’s the case what is holding him back from using that word? If you want to have a long term intimate relationship there needs to be honest and open communication. Clearly there is a sticking point here for him- why? I’m not judging him but if he can’t articulate why then he need to find a way to do so because you can’t be left guessing. Otherwise he will always be holding a part of himself back and you will always be chasing that and it will be exhausting.

OP why don't you speak to him instead of getting snappy with everyone who offers an opinion. And for what it's worth, no it isn't a relationship, it's sex on a plate.

Literally

@Beingabout apologies if this has already been mentioned, but this sounds like classic avoidant attachment to me. Look up attachment theory by John Bowlby. And you’re right - the roots are in childhood. You might find it very enlightening and helpful for you. It may help you better understand him.

I can believe many of the things you say because I was also in a ‘relationship’ like this once. I can believe he has feelings for you and yet his very avoidant behaviour has created this. It’s a painful place to be in (I found it to be anyway).

I left him. And years later I learnt he referred to me as his ex-girlfriend. (It was easier for him to say it in the past tense. Yet so difficult at the time….)

ASK HIM.

you're a grown adult.

@Beingabout

So I'm trying to see this from my own 'perspective', sort of putting myself in his place as it were. I'm newly-ish separated and do not foresee ever wanting to be in a 'relationship' ever again.

So what if I met someone whose company I enjoyed? I can see where I'd like having all the benefits of a relationship without using 'that word'. I mean fidelity, companionship, holidays, sharing our day to day lives, maybe even planning for a nebulous future. But I wouldn't want to call it 'a relationship', per se. So what would I call it? I have no idea, I don't think there's a word for it. But I wouldn't title it 'a relationship' because that implies pledging more of my 'self' than I would want to give. If I was in an actual relationship, I would give all of my 'self'.

In 'not a relationship' I would feel a little more 'free'. It wouldn't be a conscious thing I don't think, it would just be 'there'. In 'a relationship' there is more of a sense of 'belonging' to the other person and them 'belonging' to you. In 'not a relationship' that sense would be absent.

So I think yours is a Schroedinger's Relationship. It neither is or is not a relationship 'on its surface'. It all depends on which of you is looking in the box. You look in and see a relationship. He looks in and does not.

If someone says you’re not in a relationship then you’re not… it requires consent to be in an established relationship.

I will have a look at that, thank you. I am sure it comes from childhood.

You don’t know if this man would introduce you as his girlfriend or partner after five years together? When a man really wants to be with you, you know. He’ll want to ‘lock you down’ asap. You’re not Miss Right. You’re Miss Right Now.

How do you know he would mind? He doesn't sound very forthcoming with his emotions.

Everything you've said is your opinion i.e "There is both passion and love between us...." has he actually said there is love ... or is that what you're assuming as you feel that way? Don't confuse sex with love.

"He hasn’t slept with anyone else for years, and isn’t going to" again that's what he has led you to believe....

"We are not friends with benefits"... you think that ... but what does he think?

The thing is, there is obviously something wrong with him if he won’t say you’re in a relationship.

He sounds like he has commitment issues. Has he ever had a relationship with anyone?

You're not in a relationship because he doesn't consider you to be so. You aren't his girlfriend, and so he is not in a relationship with you. You're friends with benefits in his eyes.

As such, you spend a good deal of time together, as well as being intimate...but being in a relationship requires a degree of emotional commitment that he's not willing to engage in if he's refusing to call it a relationship. That ties in with him not caring if you call him 'your boyfriend', but being unwilling to call you 'his girlfriend'. He is unwilling to commit emotionally to you for some reason, but is happy for you to feel emotionally committed as that doesn't disadvantage him.

So when you say, 'how is it not just a relationship without the label?' then the answer would be that he is holding you emotionally at arm's length, not committing to you, and seems happy to continue doing so, so the emotional dynamic is totally different to a relationship. (Out of curiosity, does he tell you he loves you in a clearly romantic love sense?)

If you're both happy being in this sexually exclusive (which isn't uncommon, given how common STIs are) friends with benefits arrangement, that's great!

But it's clear that he doesn't consider you to be his girlfriend, rather a close friend he has sex with, while you obviously desperately want him to be your boyfriend, so I'd just be aware of that emotional power imbalance if I were you.

We would have no idea if you are or are not, I presume you 2 are the only ones who know so what does he say when you asked him?

I mean you have asked him haven't you?

Do you want children?

Well, when you know you are in one because you’ve talked about it, it means you don’t sit around musing and asking randoms if you’re in a relationship. Knowing your own relationship status is fairly normal, it lets you know where you stand with someone and stops you wondering.

You are asking here so obviously want to know. It holds some importance to you as you wouldn’t be thinking about it. I think you’re trying to pretend you’re not bothered, but you wouldn’t be asking if you weren’t. Don’t settle for someone who can’t give you something that you actually want.

It sounds like either he has an avoidant attachment style from childhood (which might mean he loves you but is very anxious about relationships) and/or he's not that into you (watch the movie He's Just Not That Into You)

He doesn’t want children but the salient points that may be difficult to hear are NOW and WITH YOU.

You mentioned both wanting to spend Xmas day with your young nieces - so he doesn’t hate children, the opposite in fact if he actively wants to spend such an important day with her doing family things.

If you have decided you absolutely don’t want children and can be as certain as possible top won’t in the future, fine. But how will you feel if your boyfriend suddenly decides he does actually like the idea of being a dad, before it’s too late (for him)? He has the option and safety net of fathering kids decades after you will be forced to draw a line under becoming a mother. It may be he’s aware of your ticking clock and panicking bc he’s not ready right now - for fatherhood or to tie himself to you for as long as a child would need you to co-parent. But he only has to wait another few years, less than 10 for that to be taken permanently off the table - for you.

This is something you’ve agreed between you bc you’re happy with the situation, you love him and believe he shares this feeling and you’re in it for the long term on equal terms. You’re not on equal terms. He will always have the advantage unless he becomes sterilised. Where will you be if he decides in 5 or 10 years time that he’s finally ready to take the plunge before it’s too late?

Or if, like many men who can’t face the prospect of growing up and ageing, he sees an opportunity to feel younger by starting a relationship with a younger woman who may want kids and he goes along with it bc he doesn’t want to lose her? You can’t possibly predict how you’ll feel years from now, let alone somebody else. If there’s any chance you may want a family - leave now and seek the opportunity with someone else or even alone. He may have a complete change of heart during a midlife crisis that you won’t see coming and that will be it anyway.

Every relationship is a risk but don’t risk losing the opportunity to have kids if that’s what you may want in the future, and be aware that his feelings may change regarding this massive decision.

I have a friend in his early 40s who is single but thought he had got a woman in a casual relationship pregnant a few years ago. He told her he was absolutely not interested in becoming a father or co-parenting with her. He didn’t see it as long term and didn’t want to be tied. I assumed he wasn’t bothered about children, but just a couple of years later he went on a few dates with a woman ten years younger who ended it for various reasons. I asked if he’d consider kids if that’s what she wanted and he said absolutely yes. It wasn’t that he don’t want kids he didn’t want them with that other woman or at that time.

Protect yourself OP.

I agree with the poster who mentioned avoidant attachment which presents as someone who is ‘commitment-phobic’ and keen to create distance between themselves and others even if it is in name only. He may act as though he is in a relationship but he’s not going to admit to himself (or others) that he’s in one.

Two things to be cautious of here. Firstly, ask yourself whether this really suits you? You have come to accept it because you enjoy being with him but is it what you really want? Are you compromising?

Secondly, people can occasionally change their minds when they meet ‘the one’. After years of not committing, they suddenly do because they meet someone who says “Hang on, this isn’t enough for me” and they know they have to commit fully or lose a significant other.

If you are happy having separate homes and a large degree of separateness then fine. However, be careful you aren’t compromising your own needs and wants for this person. It may feel fine now but what about in 20 years when you are that much older and heading towards retirement?

People with avoidant attachment tend to get exactly what they need. They are in control. The people who are ‘with’ them may not get what they need or want at all.