To think we are in a relationship?

[Beingabout]

We are in our late 30s. We’ve been friends since we were teenagers. We had several casual flings with each other throughout our 20s. About six years ago we started seeing each other more often, but he didn’t want a relationship.

Five years ago I met someone else, and given the stance of not wanting a relationship, I went out with him and ended up in a relationship with him. I gave the first man every opportunity to stop it but he didn’t. Anyway, we broke up after a few months and the first man and I ended up back in touch. I made it clear at this point that I was only interested in being back in touch if we weren’t going to be seeing anyone else, which he agreed to.

Since then we’ve become closer and closer. I trust that he’s not, and is not interested in, seeing anyone else. He's supportive and caring (which it’s fair to say he wasn’t in our 20s). He’s thoughtful and kind. We go on holiday together and exchange Christmas and birthday presents. I have started to refer to him as my boyfriend, which he knows about and doesn’t seem bothered about.

He woukd still say we’re not in a relationship. I can’t see how this isn’t a relationship?

@Beingaboutare you just being obtuse for the sake of it now?

You asked for opinions, people gave them in droves, the majority of which disagree with you.

You either in a situation where nothing anyone says will change your mind, in which case posting was pointless or you know the answer to your own question and you’re just carrying this on now

That’s what this whole post is about. Other than calling it a relationship, what’s the difference? And as you say, it’s whether it’s agreed to call it a relationship.

I have said many times that I was musing about it in a chat room. There is no need to change my mind.

Could you ask him to explain how he would describe you to his friends/family? Friend, girlfriend, partner etc. That might be useful.

He's got all the benefits of a girlfriend, without the commitment of being in a relationship. This makes you a placeholder. A placeholder that he treats well, but a placeholder nonetheless.

When he meets someone who blows his socks off, he'll walk away, dropping you like a hot potato. You will cry, and say, 'but we were making plans for the years to come!' And he will look at you as though you are being crazy, and he will say, 'but I always told you we were not in a relationship!'

You will be left wondering how he could throw you away so carelessly, and no-one else will understand why you feel betrayed, because he always said you weren't in a relationship.

The difference is in calling it a relationship or not, you're right, and that view/attitude is in itself an important difference. A man who is proud to call you his girlfriend and is eager to see himself as part of a couple has a very different attitude and value system than a man who wants to keep you at a certain distance and doesn't want to be in a relationship.

Both men may be in love, but the first man has a healthy attachment system and the second either has some childhood trauma or is very immature (or simply doesn't care that much, but you say that's not the case). The first man is more conventional/traditional, the second more a free spirit type. The first man sees a romantic relationship as something positive that adds to his life, the second sees it as something to be avoided.

What's in a name? A lot.

Oh OP, I feel for you, I have been there

A smart woman would not settle for less that she wants, that’s the bar between smart and stupid.

You want a relationship. That’s your dream, it effing matters. You should cherish, respect and care for this dream, rather than let it get it rubbished (and your life with it) because you met a “halfway there” (some guy with some qualities but also some crucial stuff missing).

Your chance of getting what you want out of him are pretty low. Your chances of getting another great relationship with the commitment you want are unknown, but if I were you, I d take my chances anyway, the odds are very probably much better.

I hope you start to unpack why you want to ignore your dream for just another bloke, why you treat yourself and your own wants with such disregard. Why it has to be him and not one of the billions of other blokes currently roaming the earth. Why you try to pretzel your brain into some weird reasoning to make it acceptable, like this thread.

You want a committed relationship. He doesn’t offer that, then he’s not for you, he’s not worth staying in your life. That’s all the logic you need.

Saw a video today that described a man as a taxi, if his unavailable light is on he isn’t interested. He has to chose you, you can’t chose enough for both of ye. Carry on as you are OP but if he died you wouldn’t be chief mourner or next of kin. That matters when you love someone and they love you.

After several hundred messages and lots of sensible opinions, I find your responses rather defensive and fixed. If he is so perfect and you are not bothered either way, and you are so sure he is 100% in to you / faithful to you / committed to you, then why have you felt the need to post?
I suspect the truth is that on some level, you do feel insecure about the fact he refuses to be in a 'relationship' with you, and you are wondering what else you need to do /be to convince him. His refusal to name all that you are to each other, all the time you spend together as a 'relationship', feels on one level slightly insulting.
I'm sure you will come back and say this is not true... But I would ask you to dig deep and ask why you felt the need to muse on this particular subject. Its completely reasonable to want acknowledgement of your place in his life, after several years, it seems churlish that he won't call you his girlfriend / partner.
Personally, I think I would bin him off over this, but you may feel differently

OP, being a non-cohabiting boyfriend is about the lowest level of commitment you can get yet he won't even call himself that. Ffs. Wake up.

As low a level as it is, here's what it entails:
Public acknowledgement of the nature of your relationship. None of exist in a vacuum, this is important.
If he has sex with another woman, he will get grief from you, his family and possibly his friends.

Giving up sexual opportunities with other women. This is no small thing for a guy.

Basically, he is not that into you as he would (at least for a while) risk public opprobrium if he treated you badly or give up sexual opportunities.

I think that - rightly or wrongly- you percieve yourself as far less attractive than he is.
Am I right?

Above all, remember one thing:
no label=no relationship=no rules

Well he doesn’t need to commit, share bills, finances or anything like that.

What’s interesting is that OP said he’d changed after she had another relationship. She’s not said how he’s changed but we can make guesses as to how. Maybe he changed so he could be with her but sort of on his/her terms, keep her sweet if you will. It probably wounded his pride that she had another relationship as he wasn’t expecting that.

We could be married with three kids and he could do this. You see it all of the time on here.

Well actually he couldn't

There would be at least the administrative burden of divorce, CMS, financial arrangements and the like if you were married with three kids.

Currently he could walk away in the next ten minutes with no need for any discussion beyond 'I'm done' - that's the freedom that his position of 'not being in a relationship' gives him

Thank you, but it’s not my dream - I have many dreams but none involve any man.

I quite like the idea but I am very happy as we are. I feel lucky that he’s funny, reliable, utterly trustworthy, laid back, always on my side and supportive of anything I want to do. We never argue, I never worry he’s cheating. He’s consistent, doesn’t play games. He’s got hobbies and friends and his own life and I like that. I love the lack of possessiveness and jealousy or suffocation. He’s also amazing in bed and I really fancy him.

I have tried relationships with other men and they never last. It always becomes too much. And they’re not him.

So don’t feel for me, but I do appreciate your words.

Sex and the City certainly has a lot to answer for. I don’t think it’s gospel.

I have answered multiple times that I was pondering it. This is a chat room. People can post to chat.

No, absolutely not. The complete polar opposite. I am very confident and secure in my looks, which I am told are rather good. He is the opposite. I think he is gorgeous, but he’d never think so. I have always been, er, successful with men. He definitely hasn’t been any sort of player.

No but I wouldn’t want that either. My money is mine and I like owning my own home.

I think I did say earlier how he’d/we’d changed. The agreement to be monogamous, holidaying together, exchanging Christmas and birthday presents, seeing each other much more. A lot more affection, displays of emotion and thoughtfulness and a willingness to listen when I’ve raised something I’m unhappy with, and efforts to rectify it.

‘When he meets someone who knocks his socks off he’ll drop you like a hot potato’.

These administrative burdens do not appear to stop men doing this to their wives and mothers of their children.

Anyone can walk away at any time. Lots of men do, often leaving their wives and mothers of their children completely fucked.

The hot potato comment wasn't mine, but does illustrate the general consensus regarding your position here.

Nobody is saying that a man can't just walk away from any situation. However, there is a distinct difference in that in your situation, there would be zero consequence to this. No recriminations, no financial fallout, not even the need for a conversation.

If a man is married with three kids, he will at least be compelled to address the administrative matters mentioned, whether he likes it or not. If divorce papers are filed, there will be consequences for them, being compelled to provide financial information, assessmenst from CMS for the children, having to get a mortgage to either buy out or buy a new property and so on. There are none of these consequences for your DP.

That's the point that the majority of posters have tried to make to you

Edited for typo

Then I have absolutely no idea as to why you're putting up with this shit.
And if it is not bothering you, why post asking the opinions of strangers?

Given the choice, I'd prefer a player anyway. At least you know where you stand with them.
Guys like your fwb turn me right off. They're so weak and risk averse. I mean it's really easy to end a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship so why not just call himself your boyfriend?

I suspect that you don't really know him as well as you think you do.

There would be a need for a conversation, but I genuinely do not understand why you’re saying that there would administrative and financial consequences like this is something desirable? They are a necessary thing if you have children, of course, but why would I want someone to have ‘consequences’ because they wanted to leave me? They’re not committing a crime. They wouldn’t need to be punished.

Fuck me I’m not answering the cries of ‘why have you posted’ any more. I have answered a dozen times.

This shit? The word relationship being missing, that’s it. That’s his only ‘fault’. Not cheating or abuse or not pulling his weight or prioritising me last. I do thinj some posters are being a bit dramatic.