To think we are in a relationship?

[Beingabout]

We are in our late 30s. We’ve been friends since we were teenagers. We had several casual flings with each other throughout our 20s. About six years ago we started seeing each other more often, but he didn’t want a relationship.

Five years ago I met someone else, and given the stance of not wanting a relationship, I went out with him and ended up in a relationship with him. I gave the first man every opportunity to stop it but he didn’t. Anyway, we broke up after a few months and the first man and I ended up back in touch. I made it clear at this point that I was only interested in being back in touch if we weren’t going to be seeing anyone else, which he agreed to.

Since then we’ve become closer and closer. I trust that he’s not, and is not interested in, seeing anyone else. He's supportive and caring (which it’s fair to say he wasn’t in our 20s). He’s thoughtful and kind. We go on holiday together and exchange Christmas and birthday presents. I have started to refer to him as my boyfriend, which he knows about and doesn’t seem bothered about.

He woukd still say we’re not in a relationship. I can’t see how this isn’t a relationship?

What does he call you to his friends and family?

The more I think about it I guess rather than it being ‘just’ a label that’s missing, it’s really the agreement that’s missing. A relationship is when two people agree that they’re on the same page about their status. That’s what’s missing here - agreement, consensus, on the same page-ness.

And I really don’t think that in a fundamentally healthy relationship one person can earnestly ask a question that’s important to them (in this case ‘what’s the difference between what we are doing and a relationship, in your mind?), the other person doesn’t actually answer and the person who asked the question accepts that as the end of the conversation.

Op, has he previously been married?
Apologies if i’ve got the wrong end of the stick, but it’s hard to tell from this post as it’s not clear if you’re referring to him being married or in a relationship when in his early 20s.
If he has, regardless of the fact it ended, he has made a commitment in the past & proposed to someone else, do you know for sure that is why the marriage ended?
As if he were married he would’ve been in a relationship & engaged etc beforehand so would know if he didn’t enjoy being in a relationship before getting married? Therefore that doesn’t make sense to be the reason why the marriage ended.

In my opinion after all of these years he would at least be calling you his girlfriend or partner if he felt something more, like he did when with someone else when in his early 20s.

You have some very strong, and not necessarily accurate views about FWBs which you seem to need to hang onto in order to differentiate them from your current situation. Many FWBs are exclusive to one another, and while some only meet to have sex, others are certainly also absolutely friends, and communicate a lot, go away together, support one another in bad times etc. They're just not in a relationship with the FWB, and can end the arrangement at any point with no questions asked.

Well, I wouldn’t want him sticking with me out of a sense of guilt.

Anyone can walk away from anyone at any time. No one needs an excuse to leave someone.

No no, never married. He was only 18 when he got into it. It ended around his early 20s. We were very young, he wouldn't have been thinking about marriage or anything like that.

Anyone can end a relationship.

To be quite honest he sounds a bit messed up.

FWB is whatever the 2 people involved want it to be, for some it is exactly try as you describe but for others it is definitely not

A few years ago when I first became single after my marriage ended I had a long term FWB and we did everything you mention FWBs don't but what was clear was that we were both on the same page and both knew it was FWB.

We used to message all through out the day, support each other, have holidays, I met his family etc

We only ended as I wanted to explore more sexually and he didnt.

Value yourself more than this. Yes it likely does represent a relationship in all but name but it is a situationship if he does not view it as a relationship.

He wants the freedom of a single man but the convenience of a girlfriend. Just be crystal clear to him what you want and give him a chance to respond definitively. Then you can act accordingly.

You keep saying this and on the surface it's true. But at least speaking for myself, while just dating l was prepared to immediately leave if he said/did the wrong thing, I got a job in a different country, or I simply lost interest. Now that I'm married, I would go to counselling, give things time, and basically only leave if he became abusive or cheated. So for me there is a massive difference in the level of commitment between a situationship/casual relationship and marriage.

Yes, they can. But ending a relationship and ending a FWB set up, as someone who’s done both, and had it done to me in both, are completely different. Because in a FWB, you can just say ‘Look, I’ve met someone’. No further explanation needed. Goodwill on both sides, even if the person who didn’t end it would have preferred it to continue because it was easy and enjoyable, and they hadn’t encountered anyone they liked the look of or were t ready to start dating. Relationships, on the other hand, don’t usually end with one party waving the other off and wishing them luck.

Yes they can. But it’s much harder to leave if your lives are entwined and there are more repercussions. You sound as though you are trying to convince yourself that you are cool with the situation but in reality you are upset that he won’t call you his girlfriend or partner as most people would be.

You are giving him your time, your affection, your investment and he won’t call you his girlfriend or his partner? That’s hurtful. He’s not even giving you an explanation. He’s expecting all the advantages of being in a relationship without giving you any degree of significance. You’re not his next of kin, you’re someone he likes to hang out with, spend time with but with no plan for the future, just for today.

If that’s good enough for you then fine but fast forward 10 or 20 years from now and think about how you might feel if he still doesn’t regard you as his partner…

Thanks for clarifying and sorry for getting the wrong end of the stick. It sounds like he’s just scared of labelling the relationship. If you’re both happy with where you stand, then leave it as it is.
If you want more, such as living together or possibly marriage you will have to sit down and have a serious conversation with him, so you know exactly what he thinks and where you stand moving forward.

Where do you eat, have sex etc? I had keys to my DPs, so he didn't have to be home when I was staying. In another relationship, he had a key to mine, he helped with my dog. We were partners, even though we lived apart. Each of us could rely on the other, regardless what life threw at us, we were each other's priority. But ultimately, you sound a lot happier than a lot of married couples I know.

Posted on wrong thread! Apols!

If you’re happy with the situation as it is, why does it matter to call it a relationship or say he’s your boyfriend? Why not agree with him and call it not a relationship, or agree with posters here and call it fwb? Why are you hung up on proving it’s a relationship?

You keep saying anyone can end any kind of relationship or even marriage at any time. Sort of, but it is different. Legally different with marriage, socially different with an established relationship.

Many people have given plausible explanations of the distinction he may be trying to make, though of course we can only speculate. You have just repeated your position that this is a relationship. So it doesn’t go anywhere. It starts to feel more like desperation to be correct than genuine interest and curiosity about different viewpoints.

My take remains that the distinction he tries to draw is about being together now vs any future planning. Being in an established romantic relationship with someone usually involves a level of joint future planning. Where that is not involved, I would also say we are not a couple, we’re dating but not in a relationship, something like that. Typically, the future planning is most obvious in considering shared children and shared living arrangements. If you are happy to live separately, keep separate finances, and do not want kids then it’s less noticeable but I do think there’s still a distinction to be drawn.

A relationship would typically involve an assumption that we are each affected by major life decisions of the other. I wouldn’t take a job in Australia without talking to my partner about it, for example, but I would do so without considering a fwb / dating situation. And yes, it’s possible that from a relationship I’d decide that this is too good an opportunity to miss and I have to go and we don’t want to do long distance so we’ll break up. But that involves discussion and recognizing that the other person has a right to feel upset and a bit betrayed by this. Fwb / dating it would be fine to just tell them hey I’m moving to Australia next month take care. Of course there are shades of grey in between. If you wouldn’t be bothered by such an announcement that is very unusual for a ‘relationship’.

My guess is that he simply wants to avoid a feeling of obligation and being constrained. In practice it might never come up, and you seem also happy to be functionally single (in the sense that your finances, living arrangements etc are not intertwined), and seem relatively unbothered by lack of commitment and shared future planning so then its really just nomenclature and doesn’t matter. And as you repeatedly point out, relationships end regardless of intention. I’d maybe just say that an explicit intention to not commit to a relationship is hardly likely to make it more stable. For every marriage that ends in divorce there is
another where both parties have put in serious effort to work through their issues and stick together, usually significantly motivated by their prior promises and commitment. Would you want effort put in to get through hard times? Would you expect him to talk to you if he’s becoming dissatisfied with the relationship or to just fade out? What does he expect would happen in that case?

Well, it seems to me that you have the best of both worlds then. The benefits of a relationship with the freedom that most relationships don't actually have.

I always think of what you have as 'together apart'. If I were you I'd just enjoy it and not question it or try to put a name to it.

It sounds to me like you are in a loving and caring relationship where you are both happy and share your lives together in the same way all other couples do.

You speak to each daily, you see each other regularly, you holiday together, you are sexually exclusive, you are involved in each others lives, you go on dates, you buy each other gifts, you trust him, there is trust and closeness between the both of you, he knows you refer to him as your boyfriend…..

It’s clear that for some reason there is something about the word ‘relationship’, or the concept of being in one, that makes him uncomfortable.

I would certainly want to know what he thinks makes your situation NOT a relationship?

In his eyes, how is a relationship different to what you’re already doing?

His logic doesn’t make any sense.

I think it sounds like you are in a relationship but his unwillingness to use that word is putting you at a distance emotionally. Being in a relationship tells yourself and the world that this is my person and I'm committed to them. He's not willing to go that far it seems.

For many this would not be ok as most want their significant other to be all in. It's up to you whether you accept this or not. Practically it sounds like it makes no difference but emotionally I can imagine it might cause resentment, especially after so many years.

Why have you spent years chasing after someone who, when asked, would claim you’re not together?

Sorry OP but he doesn’t want to put a label on it so his options are open and if he gets the opportunity to pursue someone else he can deny wrongdoing by way of “you can’t be pissed off, we weren’t even together”

I dont want to sound harsh but I just don’t buy the “he’s just scared of the word” nonsense. No one is scared of the word. What he’s scared of is being made to feel guilty if someone else comes along.

I agree with all of this

OP, you've asked what the difference is between labels. Thinking about it, with a casual boyfriend I wouldn't discuss any big changes like new job/new country, I'd just announce my decision. With a long term boyfriend I would discuss it but would ultimately prioritise myself. With a husband/fully committed relationship, I would aim to make decisions as a couple with one person having a veto right. I would prioritise the family unit instead of myself and expect the same from my DH.

But that's just me. Every relationship is different and couples want different things and call things by different names. The only people who can know how committed you and this man are is the two of you.

He probably thinks “relationship” means living together, sharing finances etc. Ask him.

Taking all you have said into account about feeling there is real love, long term commitment and fidelity between you, and his inability to use the word 'relationship' is the only problem -

How about talking to him and suggesting he has therapy to talk about his inability to talk in terms of commitment?

If he loves you he should recognise that you've been incredibly patient to stick with him despite his commitment phobia, and would engage with either therapy or something other serious effort to overcome his issues.

If he doesn't engage, you have your answer, he doesn't actually care about the relationship.

I would also in the meantime stop using relationship words yourself - he has told you they don't apply as far as he's concerned, and you aren't his "girlfriend" to him.

Loads of people do change their minds though OP. Both my SIL had children in early 40s after previously being adamant about not having them. I always say never say never and that's about everything. We're allowed to change our minds about stuff.